1 00:00:03.220 --> 00:00:13.000 AJ Riedel: Welcome to this episode of the thriving through podcast today. My guest is Sherry Smith sherry. I'm going to throw the
2 00:00:13.780 --> 00:00:19.960 AJ Riedel: throw it right back right over to you. Tell us a little bit about. Tell us your company name.
3 00:00:20.100 --> 00:00:22.530 AJ Riedel: and a little bit about what you do.
4 00:00:24.530 --> 00:00:32.879 Cheri: It's wonderful to be with you today. My name is Sherry Smith. My company is Creve, and we
5 00:00:33.370 --> 00:00:39.769 Cheri: provide project support to companies, small and medium sized businesses
6 00:00:39.890 --> 00:00:47.730 Cheri: who want to execute better on their really big initiatives, the ones that they need to grow and thrive as a business.
7 00:00:49.170 --> 00:00:53.550 AJ Riedel: Love that. And I want to comment on how clear that is.
8 00:00:53.980 --> 00:01:02.649 AJ Riedel: I with a lot of consultants that I work with. They're not all that crystal clear on what specifically they want to.
9 00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:08.010 AJ Riedel: They offer, and you are very crystal. Clear on, on.
10 00:01:08.270 --> 00:01:13.429 AJ Riedel: on who you offer, who your ideal client is, and how you help them.
12 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:20.280 Cheri: Me happy that oh, it just makes me happy that you said that because it's been a lot of work to get there.
13 00:01:20.470 --> 00:01:24.620 AJ Riedel: It is. It is a lot of work and a lot of iteration to get there. Yes.
14 00:01:24.620 --> 00:01:25.810 Cheri: Absolutely. Yeah.
15 00:01:25.810 --> 00:01:29.040 AJ Riedel: Sometimes we pivot and yes.
16 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:32.310 Cheri: More than once.
17 00:01:33.350 --> 00:01:41.420 AJ Riedel: Is the problem that a company is having that makes them want to come to you to hire you.
18 00:01:43.180 --> 00:01:45.929 Cheri: So. Usually it's an idea that
19 00:01:46.530 --> 00:01:49.850 Cheri: the they're ambitious. They may have grown
20 00:01:50.080 --> 00:01:54.180 Cheri: very quickly to get where they're at, or or they may have grown slowly.
21 00:01:54.576 --> 00:01:58.450 Cheri: But they have an idea that they want to get to the next level.
22 00:01:58.710 --> 00:02:07.299 Cheri: and you know, as as a founder, I relate to the idea of, you
23 00:02:07.530 --> 00:02:12.900 Cheri: mind and attitude and understanding to a place where you can execute on that
24 00:02:13.273 --> 00:02:16.819 Cheri: and then it's a whole other thing to bring the team along with you.
25 00:02:17.060 --> 00:02:43.250 Cheri: And so, you know, it might be a founder that wants to launch a new product, or move into a new market, or become more efficient, or try something different. And those things are really hard to do. And so, you know, if you hear someone saying things like you know I have a great team, but I'm not sure we're up to this, or we sometimes will hear people say.
26 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:45.270 Cheri: it seems like we're always
27 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:59.679 Cheri: trying to get caught up, and we can never get ahead of the curve. Those are the kinds of things where? You know, we can actually help because there's a system. There's methodologies, some of them unique to us, that will really help
28 00:02:59.920 --> 00:03:02.879 Cheri: people who have those kinds of problems.
29 00:03:03.290 --> 00:03:09.400 AJ Riedel: Okay, you've developed this unique focus on
30 00:03:09.940 --> 00:03:19.689 AJ Riedel: companies with 50 to 150 employees that have outgrown their project management systems that have a big initiative, something they want to do, and they're not quite sure how to
31 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:24.369 AJ Riedel: how to get there. How did you identify this specific niche?
00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:32.599 Cheri: You know, like I was kind of implying before. It's it's been a whole process. It started as
33 00:03:33.160 --> 00:03:50.689 Cheri: me being just dissatisfied with some of the aspects of project management. I've been doing project management for a long time, and there's so much that I love about the practice and the standards and and am grateful for the things that I've learned in the people who have set these
34 00:03:51.140 --> 00:03:52.310 Cheri: techniques.
35 00:03:52.700 --> 00:03:59.599 Cheri: But I felt a little bit dissatisfied with the focus on
36 00:03:59.900 --> 00:04:08.860 Cheri: how you manage versus the value that you're delivering. And so that was one thing that that caused me to
37 00:04:09.660 --> 00:04:23.829 Cheri: kind of break from all right? What are the traditional ways, and and how can we improve? What are the traditional ways of managing projects? And how can we improve that? And then the focus on the small to medium sized businesses was just as I started
38 00:04:24.010 --> 00:04:37.980 Cheri: as I've worked with people. And as I started looking at the content and the resources that are out there. It just became clear that there's this gap where, if you're a small business you're just, you know, a handful of people.
39 00:04:38.520 --> 00:04:52.810 Cheri: The coordination tends to be a little bit easier. If you're a big business, oftentimes you'll have a project management office or you know some sort of established infrastructure that helps support process projects.
40 00:04:52.890 --> 00:05:19.829 Cheri: But there's this in between space where there's not a lot of
structure. You can't afford to have too much bureaucracy that slows you down. You need to retain the agility that is making you grow so fast, but you also need a little bit of structure so that you can keep your eye on the ball that you have clarified what your goal is for your team and you minimize coordination costs. So that's
41 00:05:19.900 --> 00:05:22.909 Cheri: where we focus. And that's how we identified that.
42 00:05:23.340 --> 00:05:27.050 AJ Riedel: Okay? And I noticed you say, we do. You have a team.
43 00:05:27.700 --> 00:05:45.120 Cheri: I have a team of various professionals that help me with marketing. So yes, I and you know that's just I kind of thought that in the back of my head as I've been growing this business because I'm the only full-time person with Creve, but
44 00:05:45.270 --> 00:06:06.770 Cheri: always team oriented. That's how we get stuff done is through teams, even if you have your own business, and and I would assume that, or from what you've talked about before. Aj. You recognize the difficulty of operating independently, and I would assume that you have used
45 00:06:07.246 --> 00:06:14.210 Cheri: you know, resources that are available to you to help fill some of the gaps, even when you are working by yourself.
46 00:06:16.195 --> 00:06:16.830 AJ Riedel: Yes.
47 00:06:17.170 --> 00:06:33.160 AJ Riedel: now I do. But when I was running my own consulting business for many years I had an assistant at first, st but then I didn't really need him for the research part, because it all went online. And I did not want
48 00:06:34.070 --> 00:06:37.730 AJ Riedel: to have anybody. I didn't want to manage anybody.
50 00:06:43.540 --> 00:06:50.680 AJ Riedel: one of the challenges as self-employed consultants that we have is when we're trying to wear all the hats.
51 00:06:50.830 --> 00:06:55.000 AJ Riedel: We end up doing things that are sort of below our pay grade.
52 00:06:55.100 --> 00:06:57.120 AJ Riedel: To use a phrase.
53 00:06:57.510 --> 00:07:04.990 AJ Riedel: if you can hire somebody to do as good a job on something for a lot less money.
54 00:07:05.960 --> 00:07:12.290 AJ Riedel: Do that because that frees you up to focus on the revenue generating activities.
55 00:07:12.460 --> 00:07:19.839 AJ Riedel: And that's what I didn't see when I was at my when I was consultant, and I know it limited my income.
56 00:07:20.250 --> 00:07:31.430 AJ Riedel: my revenue, because I was doing everything, including the little stuff. And you know sometimes that stuff that's below your pay grade. Sometimes it's just more comfortable to do
57 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:34.380 AJ Riedel: than to actually make a phone call.
58 00:07:34.380 --> 00:07:36.720 Cheri: Yeah, I'm familiar with that for sure.
59 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:46.729 Cheri: You know, working with working with teams is hard, and that's 1 of the very 1st things in kind of orienting clients
00:07:47.330 --> 00:07:56.639 Cheri: that we talk about is, there's kind of 3 things from what you said that I believe are relevant from the way we approach it. So
61 00:07:57.640 --> 00:08:03.919 Cheri: 1st focusing on value, you know, you talked about hiring someone who can do it better.
62 00:08:05.230 --> 00:08:18.150 Cheri: if you're focused on what's the value of my time. What is the value of this activity towards my goal and everybody's keeping their eye on the goal that helps us to make those decisions more readily.
63 00:08:18.400 --> 00:08:26.079 Cheri: So that's that's 1 thing that we really emphasize is focus on value. Another thing is the
64 00:08:26.450 --> 00:08:41.359 Cheri: the definition of the team, you know, with, when we think of projects we think of. Okay, we're going to have this team go off and do something, and they're going to produce a result that's going to get us towards our business goal.
65 00:08:42.090 --> 00:08:55.549 Cheri: But you can't be thinking of that team as a separate entity. You're really working with everybody in the organization to some extent, especially with these big initiatives, has some piece of it.
66 00:08:55.900 --> 00:09:25.789 Cheri: and everybody has to be on the same page. Everybody has to understand what the goal is, and everybody has to be making the decisions that are within their purview towards that end on a consistent basis. And so defining your team, as you know, when I say we, I'm talking about. You know, people that I use for bookkeeping, or someone that I use for marketing, or someone that I use for sales, and and we are a team, and as long as I've defined my goals and helped them
67 00:09:26.784 --> 00:09:43.350 Cheri: understand what those are, and stay oriented towards those goals and align these incentives along with those goals. Then this
68 00:09:43.460 --> 00:09:54.650 Cheri: We all keep moving towards that same direction. So that's 1 the second thing. And then the 3rd thing is just viewing your project as a system
69 00:09:54.800 --> 00:10:05.100 Cheri: and letting a not thinking of it as I'm doing stuff.
70 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:12.717 Cheri: But it's everything that goes into it. So it's that whole environment, the beliefs, the attitudes, the
71 00:10:14.020 --> 00:10:25.790 Cheri: the of course, the processes and the systems. But looking how everything works together so that it again is all working towards that goal and achieving value.
72 00:10:27.940 --> 00:10:30.789 AJ Riedel: Beliefs and attitudes
73 00:10:31.800 --> 00:10:37.270 AJ Riedel: do they get in the way of the project? But as when you're working with a client.
74 00:10:37.490 --> 00:10:44.339 AJ Riedel: how do you identify those they're they're obstacles.
75 00:10:45.690 --> 00:11:13.460 Cheri: Purposeful about it. Like we have a module at the very beginning that our 1st focus area is project thinking. And it's examining individual beliefs and attitudes, and talking about the different ways that people think about projects, because even you know, you say project, or you say project management, and it means a whole host of different things to different people. And that's 1 of the difficulties that people face is. They're coming at it from slightly different angles.
76 00:11:13.630 --> 00:11:18.379
77 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:39.560 Cheri: have people examine and reflect on their beliefs and the beliefs of the people that they work with around projects and what they do and what is meant by a project. So being purposeful about that, and then and then also taking and saying, Okay, here's the lens through which we are looking at it. So there's all these other valid ways
78 00:11:39.650 --> 00:11:49.530 Cheri: not getting tripped up about methodologies or different, you know, certifications, or anything like that. But saying, this is how we're thinking of it. And
79 00:11:49.920 --> 00:12:08.479 Cheri: as you go forward there's no right or wrong answer. You just have to know what that is, and you have to be thinking about what it is, so that you can get your team. If you're an executive, you can get your team lined up and all thinking in the same direction about projects and how they create value for your organization.
80 00:12:10.540 --> 00:12:16.000 AJ Riedel: And you talked about modules, and that reminded me of you talked about the playbook.
81 00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:17.050 Cheri: Yes.
82 00:12:17.050 --> 00:12:18.280 AJ Riedel: Put together.
83 00:12:18.940 --> 00:12:25.680 AJ Riedel: Tell me, 1st of all I want to. I want to applaud you because your
84 00:12:25.950 --> 00:12:28.719 AJ Riedel: you've developed a proprietary product.
85 00:12:29.550 --> 00:12:33.010 AJ Riedel: So you're not just a gun for hire
00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:49.929 AJ Riedel: you are. You have a proprietary pro product, you know, product that you can, that your clients can can buy from you. So I want to know, share what inspired your comprehensive approach to developing a playbook.
87 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.619 Cheri: I mean from the very beginning I've known that
88 00:12:56.990 --> 00:13:07.890 Cheri: I did not want to do traditional consulting because there are some limitations, and and I'll divert a little bit here. I'll keep in mind your question about the playbook, but I'm I'm curious.
89 00:13:08.510 --> 00:13:16.870 Cheri: What what kinds of limitations you have run into as a consultant. Because I you know, I've spent decades
90 00:13:17.010 --> 00:13:29.679 Cheri: consulting, and I love helping clients. But I also felt very dissatisfied sometimes about the limitations that imposed, and I wondered if you'd run into the same thing.
91 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:40.729 AJ Riedel: The limitation. I noticed I was a market research consultant, so I would do projects, deliver the projects, had absolutely no control over what they did with those.
92 00:13:41.060 --> 00:13:44.189 AJ Riedel: and I knew that that in a lot of cases
93 00:13:44.330 --> 00:13:52.699 AJ Riedel: they were gathering dust in a credenza somewhere that was back in the day when I actually set physical hard copy reports.
94 00:13:52.810 --> 00:14:03.360 AJ Riedel: and it ultimately was one of the key reasons that I chose to close my consulting business because I didn't feel like I was making
00:14:03.680 --> 00:14:05.289 AJ Riedel: a big difference.
96 00:14:05.620 --> 00:14:10.089 AJ Riedel: I would put together a research report with really great insight
97 00:14:10.520 --> 00:14:15.050 AJ Riedel: to help them develop a product that was going to sell well, and
98 00:14:16.760 --> 00:14:20.390 AJ Riedel: probably 6, 7 times out of 10.
99 00:14:21.880 --> 00:14:30.669 AJ Riedel: They wouldn't do anything with it. It just got very frustrating. So that was the limitation for me is, I didn't have control over the implementation.
100 00:14:31.410 --> 00:14:32.160 Cheri: Yeah.
101 00:14:32.380 --> 00:14:48.570 Cheri: it's I. I hear you and I felt much of the same frustration. And so I've been in business for 2 years. My 1st year I did a traditional project management, you know, kind of managing a project for someone else, and I.
102 00:14:48.570 --> 00:14:52.189 AJ Riedel: Stop and and clarify that a little bit before you go on.
103 00:14:52.870 --> 00:14:55.120 Cheri: In, clarify.
104 00:14:55.380 --> 00:15:03.329 AJ Riedel: What when you say traditional product, project, management approach. So you were doing. You came in and you were the leader of the project.
00:15:03.330 --> 00:15:27.620 Cheri: Yes, so very often when someone has a project, they'll hire an outside project manager who comes in, and it's the project manager's job to coordinate, to make sure that you have a plan that you follow the plan and you execute as prescribed, and and that's very common. So that's what I had done. The project that I was working at the time was re
106 00:15:27.930 --> 00:15:30.610 Cheri: designing an internal Internet
107 00:15:31.565 --> 00:15:39.960 Cheri: for an organization. And I mean, it was. It was a great experience. The clients were wonderful, and the team was great.
108 00:15:40.130 --> 00:15:57.209 Cheri: But you know again, I felt those same limitations about what I could actually do, and what of the new processes and procedures that we put in place to help people with that project and ongoing operations? How much of that would stick.
109 00:15:57.640 --> 00:15:58.730 Cheri: I wasn't
110 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:09.560 Cheri: I, in fact, I know that after I left a lot of the things that we had put in place kind of fizzled out, even though we had developed them in conjunction with the client.
111 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:13.909 Cheri: And so I was. You know I
112 00:16:14.050 --> 00:16:18.470 Cheri: left that experience. I knew I wanted to still work for myself.
113 00:16:20.370 --> 00:16:21.650 Cheri: The
114 00:16:22.130 --> 00:16:33.360 Cheri: one of the things that I had decided was this idea that someone can come in from the outside and tell you how to run your business
115 00:16:33.880 --> 00:16:43.640 Cheri: And so it has to be a give and take. And I hit on the idea of value, co-creation.
116 00:16:43.780 --> 00:16:50.889 Cheri: And and I ran across. I don't know where it originated first, st but I ran across in Ital training.
117 00:16:51.180 --> 00:16:59.280 Cheri: infrastructure technology. I know I told they don't use the. It's just an acronym, and so
118 00:16:59.800 --> 00:17:13.820 Cheri: in in that they define value co-creation as you working with a client, and you're both contributing to the value that you can create. And it's it's it. Whether it's a service, whether it's a product. There's
119 00:17:14.040 --> 00:17:33.209 Cheri: how the client uses the product and their perspective and understanding and knowledge is as important as what you bring to the table. And I really liked that. I like the idea that you're both creating value. And it's the interaction that's really important. And so
120 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:37.529 Cheri: that's 1 of the things that drove me to say, okay, how?
121 00:17:37.780 --> 00:17:47.600 Cheri: How can we interact with people. How can we teach people to manage their projects in a way that is sustainable?
122 00:17:47.780 --> 00:17:50.610 Cheri: Once I walk away.
123 00:17:50.890 --> 00:17:54.939 Cheri: And so thinking, that's what really drove the playbook is.
00:17:55.530 --> 00:18:01.250 Cheri: how do we get people to? At the end of the day? They have to design their own project system.
125 00:18:01.780 --> 00:18:24.260 Cheri: They have to to set it up in a way that works for them. So how do we give them enough information and facilitate the right conversations so that they are organically developing a project capability. That, of course, is going to change and adjust over time, but continues to meet their needs. And so that's what drove the playbook and
126 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:30.369 Cheri: the the other thing that drove it is this idea that I wanted to expand. I don't
127 00:18:30.580 --> 00:18:47.500 Cheri: want to be just myself in the business long term. I think this is an idea that has legs and want to be positioned to grow. So I've been thinking about this in terms of what is sustainable and repeatable. And what can I,
128 00:18:47.700 --> 00:18:51.169 Cheri: you know, grow to other people over time.
129 00:18:53.040 --> 00:18:55.400 AJ Riedel: Let's talk a little bit about that vision.
130 00:18:56.260 --> 00:18:59.640 AJ Riedel: Because you're already. You're 2 years into this.
131 00:19:00.770 --> 00:19:05.899 AJ Riedel: into being self-employed. You did. You've done product project management.
132 00:19:06.030 --> 00:19:07.370 Cheri: For never.
133 00:19:07.930 --> 00:19:15.780 AJ Riedel: You know most of your career, but you're on your own for the last 2 years. Now you're pivoting to the playbook. You're already
134 00:19:16.130 --> 00:19:17.250 AJ Riedel: long term.
135 00:19:17.510 --> 00:19:17.920 Cheri: It's good.
136 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:19.709 AJ Riedel: Already thinking scale.
137 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:28.590 AJ Riedel: I want to scale this business. I don't just want it to be me. So tell me a little bit more about how that is influencing your
138 00:19:28.850 --> 00:19:33.540 AJ Riedel: your day-to-day decisions, knowing where you want to be. With this.
139 00:19:34.800 --> 00:19:55.160 Cheri: Well, I have to be willing to let go of things, and as much as I've managed stuff, I still have a hard time with that a good example would be Linkedin, you know, for a long time learning how to post to Linkedin, and getting comfortable with that, and learning how to use. The platform took me a long time.
140 00:19:55.250 --> 00:20:07.185 Cheri: and it's only recently that I have realized I can't spend as much time on it as I have been. I need to turn that over to other people and let them do what they're good at. So
141 00:20:08.110 --> 00:20:09.830 Cheri: reminding myself.
142 00:20:10.010 --> 00:20:33.960 Cheri: you know, again keeping keeping my eye on that vision. I don't want to be the one that's posting to Linkedin. I know I can't do that. If I'm going to get better at networking and get better at building business, the other ways that that are required, and so keeping my eye on that goal and having that that vision and and that intent
00:20:34.310 --> 00:20:45.929 Cheri: keeping that top of mind all the time is the thing that kind of makes me. Oh, yeah, I'm spending too much on time or spending too much time on this, I need to hand it over to someone else.
144 00:20:46.600 --> 00:20:52.160 AJ Riedel: I love it. I mean that that is, it's really you have a deeper purpose
145 00:20:52.806 --> 00:20:56.469 AJ Riedel: before you said you were driven by more than revenue.
146 00:20:56.590 --> 00:21:01.859 AJ Riedel: and that you were looking, including possibly employment, opportunities for family members.
147 00:21:03.250 --> 00:21:04.300 Cheri: Yes, yes.
148 00:21:04.300 --> 00:21:19.220 AJ Riedel: That is a deeper purpose that is helping you to make the decisions. Now that are going to help you enable you to be able to do that down the line. And so many people don't have that deeper purpose.
149 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:31.570 AJ Riedel: They don't, you know. They they, especially in the early couple of years they may be they may be just focused on their deeper purposes making money so that they can pay their bills.
150 00:21:31.810 --> 00:21:34.710 AJ Riedel: But it's tell me more about
151 00:21:34.860 --> 00:21:38.580 AJ Riedel: that how important that deeper purpose is for you.
152 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:47.209 Cheri: You know, it's to to go out on my own it it was
153 00:21:47.890 --> 00:21:54.579
154 00:21:54.760 --> 00:22:12.681 Cheri: You know all of the pivots that would be involved in all of the learning and all of the experimentation to start to figure out what it was I wanted to do, how I could help people, how to communicate that to people I mean all of that has taken a lot longer than I anticipated. And so,
155 00:22:14.020 --> 00:22:16.520 Cheri: you know, knowing that in retrospect
156 00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:30.619 Cheri: to do this to make money wouldn't make sense, maybe long term. I mean hopefully, it's if I can scale it. Of course the returns will be worth it. But as opposed to just having steady employment
157 00:22:31.800 --> 00:22:35.340 Cheri: financially, I would have been better off to stay with my job.
158 00:22:36.600 --> 00:22:38.739 Cheri: so I kind of knew that
159 00:22:39.090 --> 00:22:42.344 Cheri: when I left my my other job
160 00:22:43.830 --> 00:22:45.050 Cheri: And
161 00:22:49.430 --> 00:22:53.630 Cheri: there's a long pause here. Hopefully, you can cut this out.
162 00:22:59.410 --> 00:23:01.530 Cheri: that that deeper purpose
163 00:23:02.090 --> 00:23:09.940 Cheri: kind of always was there in that I didn't like in most of my jobs. I didn't feel like I really fit.
00:23:10.150 --> 00:23:33.970 Cheri: There was always something about it that I was like. This doesn't quite fit. And so the drive to to fit somewhere where my values and the way I wanted to approach things. And and it worked with my life. I mean, all of those have kind of been at the back of my mind for a really long time. You know you said that not everybody has that purpose. I wonder sometimes if
165 00:23:34.760 --> 00:23:41.080 Cheri: everybody has that purpose, but life teaches us that we can't honor that.
166 00:23:41.490 --> 00:23:52.261 Cheri: And I see more and more recognition of how important that is, how it's different for everybody, and how
167 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:58.539 Cheri: being able to express that in some way is really really important.
168 00:23:58.917 --> 00:24:26.430 Cheri: For everyone, even if it's, you know, maybe not through your job, but you know it might be that someone has the reason they're making the money is is for their greater purpose. Their greater purpose isn't necessarily tied up with their job, but I feel like now, with the various, you know, with the with the rise in boutique consulting and and content providers and all these different ways that you have to have a voice and to make a business.
169 00:24:26.620 --> 00:24:29.850 Cheri: Maybe there's more opportunity for people to do that.
170 00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:35.600 AJ Riedel: Good point, and what what just came to mind is that
171 00:24:37.370 --> 00:24:44.640 AJ Riedel: more and more were able to listen. You had a little voice in your head that said I don't fit here.
172 00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:45.340 Cheri: Yes.
00:24:45.340 --> 00:24:49.670 AJ Riedel: And it it just. And that voice probably got louder and louder
174 00:24:50.790 --> 00:24:55.059 AJ Riedel: for years, and probably for a lot of people. Still
175 00:24:55.410 --> 00:25:00.900 AJ Riedel: for years we were kind of told to suck it up. Buttercup, I guess
176 00:25:01.310 --> 00:25:11.619 AJ Riedel: you know. Got a job. Be happy. You've got a job. It's you know. It's using your expertise be happy with that. It doesn't really matter if it's a fit. It's a job.
177 00:25:11.890 --> 00:25:17.430 AJ Riedel: And having the freedom to say, no.
178 00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:21.739 AJ Riedel: this just doesn't fit. It's, you know, it's like a blister.
179 00:25:21.910 --> 00:25:31.819 AJ Riedel: and I've got a I've got to take that ill fitting shoe off and find a shoe that fits, so to speak. I think maybe we have a little more freedom now
180 00:25:32.590 --> 00:25:33.750 AJ Riedel: to do that.
181 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:47.980 AJ Riedel: I want to come back to something that that you said that was so important, especially for self-employed consultants, who are who are fairly early in the process because a lot of consultants starts. Their goal is to make what they made in corporate world.
182 00:25:48.870 --> 00:25:52.008 AJ Riedel: And they kind of think that maybe that's gonna come pretty quickly.
00:25:52.270 --> 00:25:52.970 Cheri: Hmm.
184 00:25:52.970 --> 00:25:54.260 AJ Riedel: That it's a lot
185 00:25:54.490 --> 00:26:01.870 AJ Riedel: harder, and it took a lot longer, with a lot more pivots and iterations, and probably, you know.
186 00:26:02.050 --> 00:26:05.240 AJ Riedel: 2 steps back one step forward that time.
187 00:26:07.250 --> 00:26:10.110 AJ Riedel: If you had known that at the beginning.
188 00:26:10.430 --> 00:26:12.460 AJ Riedel: would you have still done this.
189 00:26:17.150 --> 00:26:26.020 Cheri: Yes, because all of that process that you described is
190 00:26:26.370 --> 00:26:30.370 Cheri: learning things that I needed to learn.
191 00:26:31.820 --> 00:26:53.159 Cheri: and some of them account for the reasons that I didn't fit, you know, as I look back at some of the last positions I had, if I had known and had some of the skills that I've developed over the last 2 years. If I had the same knowledge and skills that I have now, I probably would have fit a little bit better in those jobs, but I couldn't have learned them there.
192 00:26:53.470 --> 00:26:57.860 Cheri: And so yeah, this is a hard process. And and
193 00:26:58.710 --> 00:27:01.030 Cheri: it's not just about the money.
00:27:01.320 --> 00:27:09.180 Cheri: The return on investment has been in terms of my belief in myself
195 00:27:09.570 --> 00:27:18.530 Cheri: and my ability to say some of the things that I really wanted to say before, and didn't know how, and I'm still learning that.
196 00:27:19.695 --> 00:27:23.960 Cheri: But yeah, the the payoff has been
197 00:27:24.140 --> 00:27:29.520 Cheri: good overall, just not monetary, the way I expected.
198 00:27:31.080 --> 00:27:34.530 Cheri: and I don't. I don't know how you can know that going into it.
199 00:27:35.210 --> 00:27:37.549 Cheri: And so I'm glad I didn't know how hard it would be
200 00:27:38.370 --> 00:27:44.379 Cheri: because I might have hesitated more, but like seeing how things have turned out overall.
201 00:27:44.570 --> 00:27:45.940 Cheri: Yeah, I would do it again.
202 00:27:46.350 --> 00:27:49.070 AJ Riedel: Okay, yeah, I think it.
203 00:27:49.290 --> 00:27:56.450 AJ Riedel: It's kind of a fine line. It's like when we're starting out. Maybe we don't necessarily want to know exactly how hard it is.
204 00:27:57.110 --> 00:27:57.810 AJ Riedel: but
00:27:58.290 --> 00:28:10.290 AJ Riedel: we might want to be prepared to know that it is going to be hard. So we don't come in with an expectation that it's gonna happen a lot faster than it does. You know.
206 00:28:10.290 --> 00:28:13.139 Cheri: That would be helpful. Absolutely. Yeah.
207 00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:26.690 AJ Riedel: Saw a startling statistic that 80% of self employed consultants are not in business. They they fail, be by 2 years. And I wonder if how much of that is. Expectations.
208 00:28:27.170 --> 00:28:28.199 AJ Riedel: you know.
209 00:28:28.550 --> 00:28:36.430 AJ Riedel: but they're not where they thought they would be, and it's a lot harder than they thought, and maybe they're not looking outside to help get
210 00:28:36.610 --> 00:28:39.140 AJ Riedel: other resources to help them with it.
211 00:28:40.260 --> 00:28:46.430 Cheri: That could be. And I've wondered, too, if it's every
212 00:28:47.140 --> 00:28:55.679 Cheri: a lot of what you hear is people telling you. Here's what you should do. If you just do this you'll be successful.
213 00:28:56.428 --> 00:28:58.669 Cheri: And no one really knows.
214 00:28:59.420 --> 00:29:03.770 Cheri: And it it can be very discouraging
215 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:18.879 Cheri: to try something and to try something and to try something again, especially when people are telling you. Well, this should have
216 00:29:19.210 --> 00:29:30.050 Cheri: and not knowing and not being able to, you know, make other people
217 00:29:30.576 --> 00:29:33.330 Cheri: figure it out for me. It would be nice.
218 00:29:33.510 --> 00:29:37.040 AJ Riedel: But that's not how it works.
219 00:29:37.300 --> 00:29:40.959 Cheri: And so you just have to
220 00:29:41.110 --> 00:29:47.329 Cheri: keep trying it and keep trying it and keep trying it. And yeah, definitely having that mindset
221 00:29:47.670 --> 00:29:54.550 Cheri: and that expectation would get rid of a lot of stress, for sure.
222 00:29:55.950 --> 00:29:57.980 AJ Riedel: As we start to wrap up.
223 00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:03.620 AJ Riedel: what advice would you give to other self-employed consultants?
224 00:30:09.570 --> 00:30:16.450 Cheri: Niche down and focus on
225 00:30:16.660 --> 00:30:21.440 Cheri: the areas of value. It's not about how it's not how much you know.
226 00:30:21.950 --> 00:30:24.610
227 00:30:26.445 --> 00:30:32.259 Cheri: But also expect other people to respect and honor
228 00:30:32.510 --> 00:30:42.549 Cheri: your perspective. And and the joy of doing any of this one of the big things for me is just
229 00:30:42.790 --> 00:30:50.849 Cheri: the relationships that I've developed. But they have to be mutually beneficial. And
230 00:30:51.630 --> 00:31:02.509 Cheri: so yeah, I would. I'd say, niche down, focus on the specific ways what your superpowers are, and don't be afraid to say no, to work that
231 00:31:03.416 --> 00:31:10.250 Cheri: distracts you and focus on communicating what the value is, and understanding the value that you bring.
232 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:20.730 Cheri: and then just really facilitate some really great relationships, good teams, good business relationships.
233 00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:25.669 AJ Riedel: Good advice, niche down, focus on the value you deliver.
234 00:31:28.050 --> 00:31:32.360 AJ Riedel: It said, I thought, demand respect and.
235 00:31:32.360 --> 00:31:33.010 Cheri: And.
236 00:31:33.220 --> 00:31:59.409 AJ Riedel: Be not be afraid. Don't be afraid of saying no to a client potential client where there isn't that respect, where there isn't that fit that you don't have to take every project? And, in fact, would. Is it kind of safe to say when you, when you detect somebody,
237 00:31:59.410 --> 00:32:03.259 Cheri: Absolutely. Yeah. Trust your gut, you know.
238 00:32:03.810 --> 00:32:12.940 AJ Riedel: Yeah. And then the final thing you talked about was building relationships and building teams. And you know, building a tribe around you.
239 00:32:13.320 --> 00:32:13.790 Cheri: Yeah.
240 00:32:13.800 --> 00:32:34.949 AJ Riedel: That you know the the difficult clients. I had a project once, and I I knew this man from his reputation, and the project sounded interesting, but I knew that it was going to be difficult working with him, so I doubled by. I I always charge by the projects, so I doubled my project fee for that project, and he agreed to it.
241 00:32:35.900 --> 00:32:55.570 AJ Riedel: and it turned out actually to be one of the most fulfilling projects that I had done, but I was so proud of myself saying, I want the project, and I know he's going to be a pill to work with, so I'm going to make this a lot more lucrative for me, for the hassle of working with this difficult person.
242 00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:59.839 Cheri: Well, you you set what your boundaries and your goals were, and it worked out.
243 00:32:59.840 --> 00:33:06.419 AJ Riedel: It worked out absolutely, and he turned out not to be the client from hell, which is, which was also nice.
244 00:33:07.080 --> 00:33:15.830 AJ Riedel: Thank you. I have so enjoyed our conversation today. There are so many great nuggets, and I'm sure I will have you back on the show.
246 00:33:19.080 --> 00:33:25.870 AJ Riedel: Get some more nuggets. So thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Have a wonderful rest of the day.
247 00:33:25.870 --> 00:33:28.270 Cheri: It was a pleasure talking with you. You did the same.
248 00:33:28.580 --> 00:33:29.580 AJ Riedel: Thanks, sherry.
249 00:33:29.580 --> 00:33:30.080 Cheri: Bye-bye.
