Kasia Hein-Peters Full Interview Transcript
Introduction and Path to Self-Employment
AJ: Hi Kasia, welcome to the Thriving Through Podcast.
Kasia: Hi AJ, thank you very much for inviting me.
AJ: Well, I'm delighted to have you. I will ask you the question that I ask every single podcast guest: what was your path to becoming a self-employed consultant?
Kasia: That's a very good question, and I have become a consultant just about 3 years ago, so it has not been yet a very long time for me, but I was thinking about it for a long time. I was thinking about it because I always had this passion for innovation in healthcare, and this passion cannot be fully realized in big corporations where I used to work. It can be realized to a degree. But then there are also so many other things that we have to take care of, that I had a feeling that my passion and parts of my brain were actually doing things that I really shouldn't be doing, either because I just didn't like them, or because I was maybe not the best at them, and I couldn't really fulfill my life mission.
The Golden Handcuffs of Corporate Life
Kasia: But of course, big corporations are very comfortable in some ways to work at. I mean, we call it golden handcuffs. There are nice salaries and very nice bonuses, and yes, there's an enormous amount of work and politics. But at the end of the day, the amount of salary that people get in big corporations, especially in my industry—and we are talking pharmaceutical medical device industry—is actually quite substantial. So this prevented me actually from becoming a consultant earlier.
The Breaking Point: Burnout During the Pandemic
Kasia: But finally I made this decision just toward the ending of the pandemic. When I think the total burnout that I experienced in my last job really helped me to make this decision, because I was not only moving towards something that I wanted, I was really running away from something that I just couldn't stand anymore. So I think that kind of triggered the final decision about 3 years ago.
AJ: And what was that sort of defining moment when you said I'm gonna go for it, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna turn in my notice?
The Pandemic Eye-Opener: Startup Innovation vs. Big Pharma
Kasia: During the pandemic, what actually saved us was startup companies, because both mRNA vaccines that saved millions of lives in the United States and everywhere else, they were actually developed by startup companies. They did not originate in big pharma. And even though I knew that breakthrough innovation frequently actually happens in startup companies, it was such an illustration of that fact that it was really almost an eye-opening.
And I was thinking, I really want to help companies that have these breakthrough innovations, and not all of them are as successful as Moderna was or BioNTech. During the pandemic, BioNTech obviously worked through Pfizer in the United States. But 90% of startup companies actually never succeed.
Why Healthcare Startups Fail: The Wrong Reasons
Kasia: And they sometimes don't succeed for a good reason, which is the product is not good enough, maybe not effective enough, maybe not safe enough, but they very frequently don't succeed for the wrong reason. The commercial strategy is not in place on time. Maybe the funding was not obtained because the pitch was not properly developed, and all these things that are not related to the quality of the product I actually can help with.
And I was thinking, how many patients are actually missing on innovations for their better health because companies maybe don't have the right expertise or capabilities? And this was the defining moment when I said, I really will spend my time better if I just focus on helping startup companies and other companies to basically develop and implement their innovations more successfully.
AJ: I love that. I mean, how many Modernas and BioNTechs never made it?
Kasia: So whatever innovation, I found that 90% never made it. That's the statistics. Only 10% bring products to the market. And out of this 10%, actually, only another 10% are truly commercially successful.
The Stakes: High Failure Rates in Healthcare Innovation
AJ: I know the odds. I mean, small business odds are against you, but I would think in healthcare innovation, it's even worse because there's so much money required to do all of the clinicals and do all the development. There's so much R&D that goes into it that they have to get funding as well. So I love your passion for that.
AJ: How would you define your ideal client?
Defining the Ideal Client: Two Types of Engagements
Kasia: So my ideal client is either a company or a team in a bigger company. And it's a team or a company that, to a degree, if they have products commercially available, they may struggle with growth or profitability and they may not exactly know why.
So they may have—obviously the management has opinions about it. They try to make some decisions, they try to find out. But where I come in, I offer a very thorough and probably the only fully evidence-based assessment available on the market for assessing company capabilities, capabilities that are specifically related to growth and profitability, ability to grow and ability to be increased profitability. So I can basically—there is a company that has a problem, and I can help them to start realizing what is the root cause of this problem, which is most of the time related to company capabilities. Most companies who don't meet the results, these are companies that are lacking some capabilities. So that's one type of client.
Another client is a startup company that may be pre-commercial that would benefit from my experience in commercializing new healthcare products.
Early Challenges: The Business Development Reality Check
AJ: Tell me a story or two about the biggest challenges you faced building your practice in the last 3 years, and how you've overcome them.
Kasia: So, yes, I think the challenges for a solopreneur like me—I find that there are two biggest challenges for me. One challenge is the amount of time that I have to spend on business development.
And I think that comes from this, maybe a bit misguided idea at the beginning, and that's part of my story, that oh, I have so many contacts in the industry, and they know me. Obviously they would like to work with me. Who wouldn't want to work with me? We've been working together for so many years, and we value each other. And here I come, and people don't have time for me.
The Struggle to Stay Visible and Relevant
Kasia: And it's not that they don't like me. They still like me as they did before, and they still value me as much as they did before. They don't even have time to speak with me on occasion. When they do, they may not immediately see how I can help them at this very moment. So kind of keeping in touch with people and kind of reminding them about myself, and what I do and how I can help them is a continuous struggle, because it requires a lot of time.
That's one. I think the second one is to keep being fully aware of what's happening in the market.
Losing Access to Market Research and Industry Intelligence
Kasia: Now, when I worked for a big corporation, I had all sorts of market research I wanted. I could tap into different industry reports. And now, as a solopreneur, market research is out of my reach, because obviously I don't have any budget for something like that.
Some industry reports I keep finding are not as useful as I thought. So how do I actually continue becoming aware of what's happening? Somehow, really finding this—not enormous amount, but these few sources that really give me the insight into what's happening in the industry. Because that's what's the everyday for my clients, and I cannot just be completely out of sync with what they are going through. Nowadays, everybody's going through the new policies of the new Administration in the United States. So I think, at least now I am fully in sync with what's on everybody's top of mind, because that affects everybody's business.
Losing Corporate Credibility: The Eye-Opener
AJ: The first one that you talked about, where you had so many industry contacts, and you thought that that sort of credibility would extend. I've heard that so many times from consultants that people will talk to you when you have the company name and the company title behind you and a role in the company. And then suddenly, when you're on your own, you don't have those automatic credentials that come with working for a company and being at a certain position in the company, and that is kind of an eye-opener.
Kasia: It is an eye-opener. I completely agree.
AJ: You're back to kind of square one of building your credibility.
Kasia: Yes.
The Challenge of Building Credibility Without Corporate Credentials
AJ: Especially with people who don't know me. And then the assumption that maybe they will look at my LinkedIn profile is not necessarily a valid assumption. Many of them don't. So how do I talk about myself without boring them to death with my accomplishments from the corporate world? And how do I succinctly build my credibility in these conversations? I think that is a challenge.
AJ: And how have you overcome that? What do you do?
Finding the Right Elevator Pitch: Balancing Humility and Confidence
Kasia: I tried a couple of approaches. Obviously I do and redo my elevator pitches. And I think I came from being a little too vague to being a little too detailed. And now I am probably somewhere in the middle, but I still struggle with—I always, I think, struggle with talking about myself. To be honest, I mean, I don't—I like when other people talk about me, and I'm happy when they talk well. But I struggle about talking about myself in a way that is not too, I would say, humble.
Because on one way you should be humble, but on the other way you should convey all the things that you've done successfully, and lessons that you've learned if things were not done successfully, and I think I have a—still, I'm still continuously working on the right pitch. To be honest, I continue that in different ways so to remain, not to boast about myself, but, on the other hand, truly provide the credentials that I have.
AJ: Exactly. That's part of building a relationship as a consultant—they have to believe that you are able to solve their problem. And the only way to do that is to have credibility with them. So that is a big challenge.
Proving Yourself: Client Work and Long-Term Projects
Kasia: And I think this is an initial challenge, of course, because once the work starts and progresses, I usually get very good feedback from the client. So I don't have a problem of failed projects. I think sometimes it takes me time to understand what the client really wants.
I mean the use of words. Sometimes the same words mean different things to different people. So there was a project when it took me, probably a month before I truly understood what the client wants, but then we worked for 3 years successfully, and the project was expanding and expanding until it ended because it was finished.
But this initial credibility building so that people even want to start working with me, I think that's always a barrier, actually. And I'm not surprised. I was exactly the same when I worked for big corporations. I was exactly the same.
AJ: You got to prove yourself to them.
Kasia: Yep.
Balancing Revenue Streams: Equity vs. Cash Projects
AJ: Yes, when we talked earlier you talked about that you have a couple revenue streams. Walk me through how you balance the timing and energy allocation between the equity-heavy advisory work that pays off later versus the immediate cash flow problem projects.
Kasia: So I do prioritize. When I started, by the way, when I started, I did prioritize startup companies and advisory roles based on equity. I think one of the reasons was that I was relatively new to the startup space, and I kind of wanted to really get experience and see how it works, and I think I achieved that.
Shifting From Equity-Based to Cash Projects
Kasia: But it did sort of limit the time that I had for my business development for the cash projects. So then, once I felt that I knew enough, I was pretty well versed in the startup world, I actually started limiting the advisory roles. I currently have equity, and I invested as a small angel investor in a couple of companies that I found particularly promising. So I have a few investments. I have some advisory roles based on equity, and I decided to kind of keep it as it is, do not necessarily expand it at this point.
I am now kind of sort of going back to trying to get more cash-based projects. Although sometimes it's mixed. By the way, again, in the startup world, even when the startup is funded reasonably well, the common approach is still to mix cash and equity. And this is fine, too. This is fine, especially again, and very promising startups. I'm very happy to take some equity.
AJ: I mean, you're telling them you have skin in the game. You really believe in their concept.
Kasia: Exactly.
AJ: If what you're doing for them is going to increase the odds that they'll succeed, and then you'll be able to benefit.
Kasia: I strongly believe that this is true. Yes, exactly. That's why I am very willing to get engaged with companies where I have a strong belief that they succeed, and I have a strong belief that I can help them. I think that's the best combination.
Outsourcing Marketing: The Digital Agency Decision
AJ: You work with both a digital agency and a PR agency to help with your marketing. What made you realize you needed that support and not to try it yourself?
Kasia: So I think that I worked in developing global commercial strategies in the past. And I understand that it is when you have the right—even when you have the right target audience and the right message, it is still a numbers game. So you need to reach enough people with your message who are obviously part of the right target audience so that the message is relevant. But it's still the numbers game. And I realized fairly quickly that I am unable to generate the right numbers.
The LinkedIn Automation Dilemma
Kasia: So I cannot sit on LinkedIn all day long and write messages to people who fit my target audience. I had to hire at some point a company that would automate some of this process.
And I actually, I'm currently on my second digital marketing company. I actually did not continue with the first one, which I really didn't—at the end I didn't like their approach. It was too salesy, and in my industry it doesn't work. I don't know if there's any industry where it works, but I know that in my industry it clearly doesn't work.
Finding the Right Digital Marketing Approach
Kasia: And I was not getting the right leads. So I changed the agency. And now we are taking a more relationship-oriented approach where there is one or two automated messages. But the moment the people start replying, the automation stops, and then I talk with them myself. So there is a little automation to make them interested at the beginning and create these numbers, but then very quickly I engage in the conversation, and I decide if I meet with them, if I don't meet with them. But it's then up to me.
And there is also the same aspect related to emails. If we have emails provided by these people, then there is one or two email messages, but then, at the end, when they start responding, I take over the conversation. And it's better for me—more, I would say, it builds better relationships than having, let's say, a virtual assistant in the mix who calls them and schedules conversations.
Getting Help with Messaging and Branding
Kasia: So I think that was the realization that I need someone who's really very professional and does it in the right way with the right language. Fortunately, this company that I'm working with has also helped me with the branding. It's helping with my messaging, because my messaging, coming from the pharma and medical device industry, my messages are very scientific and dry. So the company also helps me to make them a little bit softer and nicer, and just be more relatable.
So I think there are multiple ways how they actually help me. And I appreciate that because obviously, as everybody, I have limitations. I have my skills. But then there are areas where other people are much better than me.
So that was one. And that's the digital agency.
The Smart Move: Delegating What Others Do Better
AJ: And I just want to make a comment that is so smart on your part, and I see so many consultants making that mistake—they are better at it than you. So why not let somebody else do that? So that then you can focus on establishing the relationships with your potential clients, which you're better at. They couldn't do that for you.
Kasia: Because there is a limit of how much they can talk about my business. They are generalists in principle, don't know that, and my business is pretty niched, so I cannot have another person—and also, I decline any offer where someone comes to me and says, oh, I have all these fantastic writers. I can write your newsletter. I can write your story.
Why Content Must Stay In-House
Kasia: I was curious once or twice. I asked people to write something that would be part of my newsletter. First of all, it was very clear that ChatGPT wrote it, not them, and secondly, it was so generic, so not specific that it was not useful for my audience. So I never use another writer to write my content, for example, because it's just too specific. So that's a no. I create my content, my major content, myself.
So that's this was one. The second question was about PR agency.
The PR Agency: Learning While Doing
Kasia: So I hired an agency that, again, understanding that I know about PR, but I need help to do it well, because I was never a PR specialist myself. And I hired an agency to help me with writing the right content for some press releases. Helping part of this is the actual content for the general media, not for my audience, for the general media. And it's also planning for the communication calendar planning.
And it's the agency that is actually a person who runs a small group with a small group of support people. And the model is doing it with you. So I am actually doing it. I am writing it and I am planning, and they help me to make it right.
So it's not really a classical PR agency—someone who's teaching me how to do it. So I will emerge from this process, not only having documents that I can send to the media, press releases and all that. I will emerge knowing how to do it, and I will be able to do it myself afterwards.
Kasia: Because I wanted to learn, because I cannot afford a full-blown PR agency again, being a solopreneur, and I want to remain a solopreneur, by the way, so this is by design a solopreneur practice.
Deciding What Projects to Accept
AJ: Looking at your service mix—advisory roles, fractional work, training programs, quick projects—how do you decide what to say yes to and what to pass on?
Kasia: I think that for fractional roles, for example, the ideal role is when it's well-defined from the beginning. So I can actually, first of all, write a proposal, understand what's needed and then deliver it.
The Importance of Role Clarity and Skill Fit
Kasia: So clarity of role is very important, and that the role fits my skills is very important. I do not take roles where my skills wouldn't be almost 100% appropriate. Now there is a role sometimes where somehow I have more strength in some aspect and less strength in another aspect. I'm very clear about it with the client. And then we decide what to do. That's—he or she needs another person, or they still take me. And then you say, okay, but for this particular part we will hire another consultant, or you will work with an agency, which is also fine. But this clarity from the beginning. If there is no clarity, or if there is scope creep over time, or out of a sudden, in a small startup, everybody becomes a salesperson. That's a scope creep that maybe I didn't necessarily agree to. Then it's a no-no.
Protecting Your Expertise and Reputation
Kasia: Then I pass on assignments like that, because again, I have skills in some areas. I don't have skills in other areas, and I don't want to deliver poor results. So then I withdraw myself from roles where I say there are other people who can do it better.
I think that for me it's a very clear kind of delineation. If I really feel that I'm not—I'm not just your arms and legs to do everything. I have very specific expertise, deep expertise. And I really want to help companies by using my deep expertise. So that's kind of one. I hope it's clear.
AJ: It is clear, and it requires some discipline, because in a month when maybe it would be nice to get a little more cash flow, it's hard to say no to what might be immediate cash flow, but I mean, I found for me that when I take those projects that are not perfectly aligned, they never work out.
Kasia: They never work out, exactly, exactly. And because, you also don't have heart in it. On one hand, there may be some lack of skills. But there may be, I don't have a really a passion for it.
Saying No to the Wrong Partnerships
Kasia: So, and then with the other projects, the consulting projects—I get a lot of, for example, proposals from other companies for partnership. They say, oh, why don't we partner? If you sell my service you can get a cut. If I sell your service, then I get a cut. I don't, really. I very rarely engage in partnerships like that. There must be really a very good fit because I never have time to sell another person's product and I don't speak with enough people to effectively sell it. And I'm not a business development professional. So I pass on those even though I actually get probably most of people who contact me on LinkedIn actually would like me to sell their stuff.
AJ: Exactly. That's the problem with LinkedIn.
Kasia: That's the problem with LinkedIn. Yes, yes.
The Reality Check: Expectations vs. Business Development Reality
AJ: Yes, you initially—you said that you initially thought that you'd be an overnight success. And then you realized how brutal business development is. What was that reality check like?
Kasia: It was so—I was somewhat comfortable at the beginning, because when I started being an individual consultant, I got into my first and at that time my biggest project very quickly. So I had this one project going on, and it was going on pretty well. And then I was, all right, fantastic. So let me do some business development. I'll get two or three more projects, and I'll be fine.
And I found out that the time spent on business development is enormous. And the results actually—I don't know if someone really found the secret sauce, or maybe there was a secret sauce for every different market. But I was trying different things, and I was trying to find out what actually would work.
Experimenting with Different Marketing Channels
Kasia: So there is a LinkedIn outreach which has been working for me, I would say, moderately well, and I see that recently the return on investment is actually going down. There's less and less people willing to engage on LinkedIn. I think that we are probably all tired with—so in some ways I understand that. I am targeted on LinkedIn constantly, and I am myself tired with the messages that are very, really not relevant to me, or just trying to sell me something constantly. But I do try to either decline or reply to all of them at least. But other people don't, and I don't blame them.
So LinkedIn is kind of diminishing return. I try to do events, which I think were very rewarding. I liked that, but also extremely time consuming.
The Time Investment in Live Events
Kasia: So that was also something that I was doing for one year and a half. And then I decided to stop. I was, okay, I've done events. I kind of understand how business development works through events. But the return on investment—and investments most of my time, the financial investment was okay. But then, when you factor in the time that I spent organizing an event, I was, let me try something else.
And I will still be doing events. But they will be mostly webinars, and maybe some online short online series of free events to basically showcase. Because this is the only way to showcase what I'm doing and then make people interested when they see what I'm doing. They're, oh, we really would maybe to do it on a deeper level in our company.
So I will continue events. But they will not be live events, because that's an enormous amount of work.
Evaluating Marketing ROI: Time and Money
AJ: And you bring up a point—any marketing strategy that we use, it's worth experimenting with. But then you really do need to stop and say, the amount of time and money that I put into this, how effective was it at generating leads or prospects? And often, that's the challenge that all of us face—how do we find things where there's a positive return on investment for the time, not only the money we spend, but more importantly, the time we spend. Because that's huge.
And a lot of people, I think that's why I think a lot of consultants go all in on LinkedIn because it's so-called free. Well, it's not. If you spend three or four hours a day on LinkedIn, which is easy to do if you followed all those experts who say you have to do this, this and this and this, it is a lot of time investment. And are you really getting anything in return? So it's exactly no.
Kasia: Yeah, exactly.
The Next Marketing Experiment: Educational Series
Kasia: So I am still trying to find my secret sauce, to be honest. But I am very happy to experiment, and I keep experimenting. Now, I will be experimenting with short educational series. I am just putting this program together. It will be promoted to again target audiences that I feel it may be relevant for, and it will hopefully generate leads for my educational and consulting projects.
AJ: I love that. That was actually going to be my next question—what's the one marketing experience you're planning to try? Is that it? So it's mini educational courses.
Kasia: It's I want to create a series of four short courses that will show different aspects of what I provide as a consultant and as an educator, because I also educate.
Creating a Four-Part Educational Series
Kasia: So again, it will be right up my alley. It will be educational, but it will be four sessions. And then, with the idea that a person may join one session, or all four depending on their interests, so they may want to only see two out of four. There's no obligation to attend all four, but all four will be made available. And this basically will showcase the approach to innovation in healthcare that I promote, which is actually very different from a kind of your classical thinking about what innovation is. And I think it's much more thorough and much more systematic, and therefore leads to better results. So I want to show people how it leads to better results so that they understand that it's truly a different methodology.
AJ: Are these—do you charge a little bit for these, or are they free?
Kasia: So I think that these four will be free, and I will continue repeating them over time, and there will be a way to get into a paid-for course which will be either delivered by me to the team of people in a given company. It's in the idea of upskilling the teams into reacting better to the ever-changing environment. I call it New Horizon Leadership. That's what the program will be called. So there will be one option, and there will be, of course, options to have some—if people are really interested in something very specific, it may lead to a consulting engagement, where I will actually deliver something very specific, specifically developed for a given company that is interested. So yes, it will kind of lead to selling different options.
AJ: Which is ideal. That's what your marketing is supposed to do.
Kasia: Exactly. That's what marketing is supposed to do. It will be directly linked to this consulting offers, and my educational offers.
Final Advice: Focus on Audience and Problem-Solving
AJ: So I have, as we start to wrap up, I have one more question. For those consultants out there who are overwhelmed by all the marketing advice out there, what would you say is the one thing they should focus on first?
Kasia: Understanding their audience and being very, very specific about the problems that they solve. Because this will help them to target people better and to communicate better. The message will be more clear, more oriented on the actual solution that they provide, and relentlessly dismiss people who don't need them. Don't talk with people who don't need you. It's a waste of time.
AJ: Fabulous advice. You are a woman after my own heart. That's the same kind of advice that I give, and thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I really appreciate your time and your insight and wisdom, and I know that the readers, the viewers and listeners, will appreciate it as well. So thank you so much.
Kasia: Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.