ļ»æKim McGownd Full Interview Transcript
Introduction and Background
[00:00:03.910] AJ: Welcome to Thriving Through Today. My guest is Kim McGownd. Kim, I'm so delighted to have you on the podcast.
[00:00:11.700] Kim: Super excited to be here.
[00:00:14.520] AJ: When we talked earlier, you asked to describe yourself. You call yourself an independent risk management and compliance consultant. Tell us more about what that is.
[00:00:28.680] Kim: So I definitely hover around that space. Recently a conversation of mine led to kind of defining with one word what I truly am acting as, which is an intermediary, a strategic intermediary. So I connect people to the right people to solve problems when a business hits a wall, whether it's compliance gaps, operational friction, or stalled growth. So I have a weird ability to kind of hear gaps early on, and what's missing. And then I can bring the right expert to the table to help solve that problem.
Understanding Risk Management
[00:01:08.590] AJ: I love the intermediary concept. So tell me a little bit - I'm not real familiar with risk management. How, what is it? And why do companies need it? So why do they need an intermediary?
[00:01:31.800] Kim: Risk management. Every company has risk. It's risky starting a business, owning a business. Typically when everyone has their own definition of risk, but there's components around enterprise risk which is regulatory compliance. That's your OSHA, DOT, industrial hygiene. There's federal and state rules and laws where companies in the construction manufacturing have to abide by. Oftentimes they maybe get overlooked. Your handbook is also tied to that. If you don't have updated handbooks, that's a huge risk.
Your culture can be a risk if you don't have the right people in the right positions. If you're not treating your employees well, they're not going to do a good job for you. That can be a risk.
Financial, your insurance - all of these things go hand in hand with running a business. There's ways to keep things compliant and running smoothly, but sometimes it can get really crowded and really noisy. And when you grow really fast, that's where some things can get overlooked. So there are companies - specifically, here locally in Kansas City, just coming from the construction space, J.E. Dunn, for example - they're so well known, they're very well buttoned up when it comes to having risk management teams, risk advisors, safety directors.
But smaller companies don't always have the means to have that. So having someone like me that can come in and plug in resources like third party safety, attorneys - cyber is another huge conversation. Cyber, so physical, non-physical security for companies is a big one right now, and they don't always know where to go or they task an HR person or the president is trying to wear all the hats. And then all of a sudden, they have an email breach or an IT situation. And where do they go?
So I figured out the gap, which is what I love doing. I live in the gaps. Some people just need help figuring out where to go next. So risk isn't something a lot of people like to talk about, because no one wants to hear that things aren't in order. But it is a huge piece of the puzzle when anybody's owning or running a business.
Journey to Independence
[00:04:06.090] AJ: And you've been doing this since January full time.
[00:04:11.693] Kim: On my own, yes. I had, through my network I met a gentleman that he had his own third party risk management company, and that was where the light bulb went off for me. I learned so much. I had no idea what regulatory compliance even was, or business continuity, and just by being in so many conversations and fumbling my way through rooms in trying to find us a home.
I fell in love with the conversation. So I've only been in this space about 2 years. But again it all clicked for me because I'm a big picture person, a big picture thinker, and a solutions minded person. So when you teach me, or I learned about risk management and business continuity, I was like, oh my gosh! Everything makes sense to me. So I decided to go out on my own. And I like the business continuity side. That's the whole picture - coming in and looking holistically at everything within an organization, and seeing where there's room for improvement.
[00:05:24.130] AJ: So, you've been doing this for 2 years. So up until January you were working for someone else. What made you decide to go out on your own in January?
[00:05:36.180] Kim: I think there's lots of reasons. I've always enjoyed working for people and for companies, but I've always had an itch to kind of do something on my own. I'm a little bit of a healthy disruptor. I like being the pioneer, and I just felt like it was time to do something on my own.
And I've always joked that if I could get paid to network, I would make a killing. And sure enough, I mean, that's exactly what I'm doing. I truly feel like I'm on my way to mastering business development and networking, and how to build a network that works for you, and with you.
The Power of Strategic Networking
[00:06:21.580] AJ: When we talked earlier, you gave me an incredible statistic. You said you've attended 451 networking events in a year.
[00:06:34.040] Kim: So I actually went through and was going through my spreadsheet. So I would say, I'm hovering around to date about 800 plus one-to-one meetings or events.
And I know that I have an advantage. I have a lot of extra time that some people don't that they have families, or a different type of home life. But I truly thrive on conversation and being in rooms that people aren't often putting themselves in.
And that's how I've - that's my research and development is the conversations, the networking, and going out and curating a network that is intentional.
So not only do I get to lean on the people that have helped me so far, but now I know what I need, and so you can - it's just super fun when you figure out the power of a network.
[00:07:31.100] AJ: So when you're talking about networking, it's not necessarily like those business networking groups, is it? You talked about curated networking. I mean, give me an example of what kinds of networking events you attend.
[00:07:47.020] Kim: My approach - last year, when I was hired to do business development and build a brand that did not exist in Kansas City, and we didn't really have a plan. So I was like, well, I'll just Google all of the associations that are tied to the industries that we would want to be involved in, which was construction, manufacturing, automotive. I mean, it was a pretty long list, and I just kept a running total of all of the associations. There's so many groups in Kansas City. There's so many groups nationwide. But I was like, I'm just going to go to one event to all of these. And that's kind of how it started, because I needed to figure out where we belonged.
We're a regulatory compliance third party risk management company. We don't need to be in an AI room. That was kind of my mentality. So I think I learned which rooms made sense. But I just started talking to people and telling them our story, and they would say, you need to go here.
So I kind of let it just organically happen, because I would share the story. And they would be like, oh, I know someone you need to talk to. Oh, I know someone. This was where you need to be, and so it kept building from there. And now I share it. I call my networking cheat sheet. I'll share it with new business development people that I meet, or people that are just like I just don't know where else to go, because I'm very much a put people in rooms that they're not thought of, and put yourself in rooms that you're not typically in.
And that has really helped me. So to answer your question, it is all over the place a little bit, because I go to events that I've paid to be a member of, because I see the value. And I want to be involved either in economic development or selfishly be a risk resource for other industry-specific companies that I want to be in. But then the rest of them have become local charity driven events or groups that other peers have put together with just natural leaders that are trying to do right not only in business but in our community and just being better humans.
I love learning. I'm a very inquisitive person. So somebody's like, oh, there's this AI forum coming up. I think it'd be great for you to go to it. I'm like awesome. Thank you. So now people just tell me all the things that are going on, and that's where I meet one-off people that I'm like, oh my gosh! That's exactly the type person I've been looking for, because I had a company that had this type problem, and I couldn't figure out exactly what I needed. And then I would meet them in this room. So it just continues to snowball and some of the connections I've made, and the rooms that I've been able to get in within a year and a half.
I do not take it for granted. It's incredibly humbling, and it's so exciting to see where all of this goes.
Building a Business Through Conversation
[00:10:52.020] AJ: It's fascinating. I always - when I talk to consultants who say that they rely on networking, I have to admit that I've always been a little, you know, it's like, well, that's not sustainable, spending all your time on networking. And it's kind of catch as catch can when it comes to lead generation. Because if you're at a chamber event you may or may not find your ideal client. But you've opened my eyes to another way to look at it. And you're not just going to other people's networking events. You're actually creating your own community.
It may have started with association events, but it sounds like you are really pulling together your own community.
[00:11:48.280] Kim: It absolutely has become my own research and development. There's so many thoughts I have now on how to be a better risk manager or chief risk officer, or whatever that looks like down the road. But now I'm thinking, digitally - tools wise, assessment wise. How can I get to those solutions quicker based on all the things that I know?
I mean, every meeting is a data point or an entry point. And I'm not typically chasing the contacts. I'm building a business through conversation. It's almost like capitalizing on being a conversationalist.
I have shared my story hundreds of times, and there's - and it's not right or wrong. There's people, some I still have close friends that would recommend me to anyone like, I have no idea what she does, but you need to talk to her, and at first I was like, I don't know if that's a good thing. I've got business coaches and classes that I've taken with highly respected people like, you need to really hone in on what your message is, because it's just - I'm just not sure. I'm like, well, I don't know if I'm sure, either. But I've kind of mastered becoming this resourceful - everybody's like I got a guy. Well, now, they've got a girl that they can call because I want to be one phone call away from the solution.
And so it's definitely shifted because it was just going to be risk management at first. But now it is kind of this Master Connector. I mean, I have probably a 5-page document running document of just introductions that I make. I'm doing it every day.
I got a call from a friend the other day that's a VP of a company, and they just had some marketing questions. He's like all the people you know. This is what's going on. Well, we get to talking, and there's 6 gaps. And so now I get to introduce 6 of my partners that all gives them an opportunity, while also helping my friend, who's in a growing business. That is the fun stuff. It's taking a lot of blood, sweat, tears to get there. But I feel like we're finally getting over that hump.
It's just - it's all defining itself.
The Eyeball Test and Message Effectiveness
[00:14:07.300] AJ: What also strikes me is that you - you may have some of those, you know, coach people telling you need to refine your message, but when I hear you, you said you tell your story, and they say I've got somebody you need to talk to.
To me that is telling me as a coach that your message is resonating. I mean I learned it. I think it was Sage Levine, a public speaking coach talked about the eyeball test - when you talk to somebody and you tell them what you do, it passes the eyeball test if either they say, I need you, or I know somebody who needs you.
And it sounds like your messaging is getting that kind of reaction.
[00:15:00.670] Kim: And it wasn't slick when it started.
So to be fair, I think that's one thing I like to talk to or help other young business professionals or business development. You can't be afraid to fumble your way through it. I mean, there's been times that I've said things, and I'm like I honestly don't know. I don't ever try to make anything up. I've always been comfortable being uncomfortable, and I think that is something I really lean into. It's not easy for people to do. But I think it is working to your point. So I appreciate you saying that.
Managing Relationships and Follow-up Systems
[00:15:47.320] AJ: So the one question that I have that's a little challenging because you are relying on networking as your lead generation tool. If you got sick for 3 months, what would happen to your business development?
[00:16:08.768] Kim: I feel incredibly confident with my network and how thick we are and how connected we are that I would be okay.
[00:16:24.260] AJ: You've taken networking to a new level. I mean, I feel like you should do a masterclass on networking.
[00:16:32.300] Kim: Well, I love lying in the middle. I'm very diplomatic. I want to hear all sides. I'm not one that - I don't care which way you roll, what side you are, what color it doesn't matter. I love the different perspectives, and I appreciate, and I respect those influencers and people that have thousands of followers.
But for me that feels overwhelming. But I respect it, and sometimes I'm like man, if I just had more followers. But I'm like I'm only one person. I know how much time I put into a week, just in my own conversations, letting alone trying to reach 10,000 people. So for me, I kind of look at it from - I need 10 people who advocate for me in a room.
So that's what I've done is tried to build a network that not only I can support and help them get new business, but they work for me. So I want people out there spreading my word. And I think that is just as impactful as 10,000 followers.
[00:17:47.150] AJ: It's far more impactful. I would say, because you're developing relationships with those people. And it's reciprocal where they're helping you. I mean followers on social media is a vanity metric. It's a popularity contest, and when you've got and sorry for all of any listeners out there with lots of followers, I will probably offend you, but those followers don't often rarely result in leads.
So I have a question. I didn't mean to interrupt you.
[00:18:30.130] AJ: Walk me through what happens after you have a great networking conversation. How do you stay top of mind with that person over the following months?
[00:18:41.916] Kim: I get very excited very quickly, so I've had to kind of slow my roll a little bit, because I can be a lot if I like to move quickly. But I very much follow up and do what you say you're going to do. So if I say, I'm going to follow up with an email, get you some additional information. And then I try to get a one-on-one meeting. So that right there, I think, is important, because there's a lot of people that like, oh yeah, I'll reach out, or I've got somebody, you know, introduce you to, and then you never hear from them again.
I have had to work really hard at not giving everybody an hour of my time. So I definitely did that, obviously getting in 400 or 250 meetings in one year. But I think it's definitely just following up and doing what you say you're going to do. So I do like to get a one-to-one meeting. And then that really gives us a good idea of where the opportunity lies for collaborating, and by the end of that one-to-one call we either know that we are going to be connected. We're going to continue to stay connected. We're going to keep in touch. Quarterly, monthly may not be the right time now or not really something I can do, but maybe they can be an advocate for me, or this is somebody that I have to have in my intermediate network, because there's a project I'm working on, and you've got to be a part of it.
I also do a lot of vetting so companies that I am partners with. If I put you in the room, or I make an introduction to another company that's trusting me to be that solution, and you don't follow up, and you don't do what you say you're going to do, that's a very quick way to get out of my network.
Operational Systems and Organization
[00:20:40.090] AJ: So what - couple questions are competing for attention in my mind. One is, how do you keep track of all of these people? Because I assume you follow up with them on the email. Maybe you have that call, and maybe it's not yet their response. You know, I don't have a need now, but I might in the future. How do you keep track of all of those to know when to follow up?
[00:21:08.650] Kim: I'm going to be very vulnerable with you right now. I don't know. Maybe I'm a little bit of a rain man in the head. But I have a lot of spreadsheets. I do not have currently a CRM that tracks all of this for me.
I live and die by my calendar. I'm probably on my calendar more than I am Instagram or Facebook or any social media. So I'm a big note taker as well, so there's a methodology in my head. But I manage somehow to all keep it in order. And right now it is just through spreadsheets.
[00:21:44.040] AJ: And it's working for you for now.
[00:21:47.890] Kim: It is. I call them my board of directors, and they include my best friend of 30 years who is my spreadsheet savant, my operations piece of my mind. So I have some amazing friends that are helping me on the back end get some things in order. Help organize some of that. Now I'm hiring - just hired an accountant.
I think the other part of being a solopreneur or an entrepreneur is knowing exactly what your strengths are not, and that would be accounting, and I do not like the thought of having to set up a CRM. Literally. No. So again, leaning on your resources to help you with that. So that is a part of the business I'm working on right now.
[00:22:37.760] AJ: Well, and you can always outsource when it comes - when you know when the spreadsheets become too big to be manageable, and you're ready for a CRM. You can get help, and I'm sure people in your network that will help you.
[00:22:51.080] Kim: Exactly, and that's the other beautiful thing about networking. One of my favorite books is The Go Giver, and I also have to credit my mentor, Matthew Young, who I met at a very young age that taught me early on, never burn bridges and treat people the way you want to be treated because you just never know how they might help you in life.
So I don't take a very transactional approach. It's so funny how many people say, well, how do you get paid? How do you get paid? I'm like, let me worry about that, because there is a method to this madness. But it isn't a type of position that is - it's hard to put a price on it a little bit. But a lot of the people I work with from attorneys to brokers, it's not a type of position that they can pay me, because I'm not certified or accredited, or whatever it may be, but it's them introducing me to their network. It's service based. So I've sent a lot of business to a very good attorney friend of mine, and I have free legal counsel, so that to me is invaluable, and that is also another beautiful thing about networking and doing right by others.
Client Acquisition Strategy
[00:24:10.430] AJ: I love the way you go into these events. It's not transactional. It's not what can you do for me. What can we do for each other.
[00:24:29.840] AJ: So I have a question - if somebody - do you work just in the Kansas City area? Or are you more national?
[00:24:42.945] Kim: I will go wherever this is kind of the beautiful thing of creating something that doesn't exist, and it's something that anybody can have access to - the connections I'm making. I just met a former CIA spy who is a top level CISO. I think I found my - I was always looking for these very niche nuggets, and all of a sudden we're talking about a National Risk Summit in Rome. So I don't know where this is going to go, and that's the beautiful part of it. And I think that's what's been so fun - terrifyingly fun. But yes.
[00:25:24.550] AJ: So if someone in construction in Denver had the exact problem you solve, how would they find you today?
[00:25:33.260] Kim: Probably through my network.
So it really is becoming - I do get asked that question a lot, and I struggle with it because I do see why it's important, but it's really hard for me to define. So it's more of a collective, like business personality or checklist of a business. So it is companies that are experiencing rapid growth that have exposures or gaps they don't know how to navigate, and so oftentimes it will - that's why I have such close relationships with brokers or attorneys, or people that already have a trusted client base because they are going to know exactly which clients need someone like me.
So instead of me having to go out and find the business because I'm talking about really high level, vulnerable conversations. I'm peeling back the curtain. So for me to walk into a construction company in Denver and say, hey, this is me. This is what I do. Let's have a conversation about it. They're going to be like, who are you? But if their insurance broker who they trust, who they've been with for 20 years, sits them down and says all the things that we've talked about, I've got this girl that I met - her resource, her network covers all the things that we've been needing to tackle. I'd like for you to have a conversation with her - now I have an in.
So I kind of do it a little bit backwards by getting the trust in the relationship with the people that already have an in to somebody that might need my services versus me going out and trying to cause that - that is harder to do.
[00:27:20.090] AJ: So you don't necessarily try to find the person who would actually be your client. You work with the people who are influential on them.
[00:27:34.060] Kim: Because most of the time they're going to get what I do way quicker. They're going to be like, oh, this makes perfect sense to me. I know who you need to talk to.
Avoiding the Hard Sell
[00:27:45.540] AJ: That was a question I was going to ask, but I think it just answered it. When you meet somebody who has risk management issues but doesn't realize it, how do you educate them without seeming pushy? But it sounds like you don't because the attorneys and the insurance brokers that are already servicing them are going to point out that they have a risk management issue.
[00:28:12.830] Kim: So they've already started that conversation. And then you happen to be in a relationship with those people. So you're top of mind for when the issue comes up for them.
That's the fun part. Because then we get to work. We come in as the front line, and my credibility comes from the resources that I have lined up. I don't come in and say - I don't do the work because the experts I have behind me are so good at what they do. I'm the liaison. I'm the one that's going to help piece together the right team. So then when I get in there, there's a little bit of an owner's rep hat that comes on.
Again, I am a very empathetic person, so I want people to feel at ease that they can talk to me about sensitive things. Someone said this to me one time, and it made perfect sense. But no one likes to be told their baby is ugly, right? You've built this whole beautiful organization, and it's growing rapidly. But there's some stuff under the hood, or there's stuff behind the curtain that hasn't really been cleaned up in a few years.
That's okay, because there is a solution, and it doesn't have to be scary and overwhelming. So again, I think COVID hit everybody differently, and for me it brought me and my family back together, and I wish that we took 4 months a year to all just be with our friends and family, and it definitely opened my eyes to the fact that conversations are lost. And so I think just, I want to be the person that still has old school conversations, and I'm finding that more owners and leaders and people doing business are - they've missed that they're going back to. I want to just lean on someone that I trust to help me navigate things because I've spent so much money buying into the companies that tell me they can do everything when they can't.
The Power of Authentic Solutions
[00:30:31.470] AJ: What kinds of - is this for coaching business programs?
[00:30:40.158] Kim: What do you mean?
[00:30:41.170] AJ: Well, you said you've spent money on people or on companies that said they could do everything for you.
[00:30:48.260] Kim: Oh, I mean, I just think that there's companies out there that say they can be everything and solve all the problems for their company. If you just buy this product or you buy into them, and nobody can be everything to everyone. I mean, that's just realistic. I mean, it's unrealistic.
So I don't ever try to be anything - look, I don't know what I don't know. We don't know what we don't know, but let's figure it out together, and that's what I love doing. Oh, we have a problem - let me go figure out how to solve it.
[00:31:27.540] AJ: I love that - so you don't come across with your clients as the end-all be-all expert. You are the person that can find the solution and the best person to solve their problem for them.
[00:31:44.210] Kim: I also want to empower them and educate them. That's the other fun thing that the people that I'm surrounded by now - the work and the blood, sweat, tears they've done to be an expert in their field or in their craft now can help me curate tools that will do just that.
If I haven't uncovered a kind of an IT heartburn with a company, and I asked my managed service providers, my cyber experts and insurance brokers around cyber to help me put together a list of questions I can share with a company if I hear certain things come up in the conversation. And again I'm like, let me just send you this checklist. Sit down with your IT team, check the boxes, talk to your insurance broker.
Just by educating myself on these areas where people are going to have a hard time understanding what it means, or not know what questions to ask. So not only am I providing solution, but let's get better educated on it. Let's empower you to know what you're spending your money on, and if maybe you have an IT person, you don't, you need to, or you need an IT person that has this. So by leaning on the network that I have around me also helps me give better tools, resources and data to empower the people I'm trying to help. I don't want to just come in and say, oh, I can help you - here's actual hard facts and things that you could be curious about that are going to help you navigate some of the stuff that keeps you up at night.
Business Development vs. Marketing
[00:33:58.240] AJ: Okay, I want to switch gears a little bit. Do you ever feel like you need to be doing more in the area of business development and marketing than your networking?
[00:34:13.389] Kim: Business development is a fun thing for me, because there's a lot of people that know the difference between business development, sales, business development and networking. They kind of go hand in hand, depending on how you do it. Business development, in my opinion, is again trying to go out and figure out how to maybe position a business for growth in a way that you weren't thinking when you develop the business.
Marketing - it's so funny. I have a marketing degree. It is way outdated. I know enough to be dangerous. But I would say, branding is something I lead with more than marketing. I actually don't market at all. I haven't had to do any. I do have a website. I don't even know if anybody knows I have it. Everything I've done is word of mouth. But I do understand the importance of branding and marketing.
I think everything all depends on where you're at and what you're trying to get out there. I want to be again top of mind and relevant, and a lot of my peers are like, you're everywhere. You're in every room. You're all over LinkedIn, mind you, I don't tag myself. I don't post. I'm grateful for the people that post me, but I want to be kind of this quiet underground. You gotta know somebody to get to her.
But when it does come to branding and marketing and business development, I think those things go hand in hand. So when I'm talking to companies, that is another piece of the puzzle we're talking about as well.
Measuring Success and Growth
[00:35:59.230] AJ: Are you aware? So you're now 8 months in and on your own, are you where you expected to be?
[00:36:10.910] Kim: Not at all.
[00:36:17.530] AJ: I was going to say, where did you expect to be? And where are you?
[00:36:23.800] Kim: I honestly didn't know. I thought I had an opportunity to maybe get a big deal right out of the gate, and it kind of fell through, so I had some pretty good failures right up front.
But I think when you jump off this entrepreneur cliff, you obviously can't go back quickly. I am a natural hustler, and I think sometimes curiosity has helped me as well, but I think I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be to answer your question.
It's really hard to define when you're creating something that doesn't exist and you're creating a brand that is all around you and the people you know. You just kind of have to let it ride out.
And I'm incredibly humbled and grateful that I am where I am, and I do feel like it's starting to work, which is exciting. And so now I get to lean into that next phase of really making it work.
Advice for Fellow Consultants
[00:37:35.240] AJ: Last question for somebody - other self-employed consultants who haven't leaned into networking the way you have. What advice would you give them? Where should they start? What should they do?
[00:38:00.520] Kim: I think it's a competitive market. There's a lot of amazing individuals that are leaving their corporate jobs. I listened to Tom McKeon's podcast that you had, and to his point, you go off on your own. You think everybody's going to follow you.
It's not always that easy. You have to be comfortable getting uncomfortable, going out and fumbling your way through conversations and putting yourself out there.
I also would recommend go to events or panels or different things in your community that aren't really maybe even tied to the business that you do, because you never know what business owner might be in that room that needs your exact service. So I would challenge to think big picture or think just think differently.
If you're going in the same rooms of all the people that you work alongside, or doing the same similar things than you're doing, then you're just fighting for the same opportunity. Go out and find different opportunities.
[00:39:11.290] AJ: Love it. That's a great way to end. I mean, I have a million other questions, but this is a good place to end with that. That is the end of this episode of Thriving Through Today. Thank you, Kim McGownd, for being my guest today.
[00:39:25.160] Kim: Thank you so much. This was fun and incredibly valuable. I appreciate the opportunity to share my story and insights with your audience.
