ļ»æFred Renoth - Full Interview Transcript
Introduction and Background
AJ: Welcome to this episode of the Thriving Through podcast. Today my guest is Fred Renoth. Fred, I'm so glad to have you on the podcast.
Fred: Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.
AJ: I have two questions that I ask every one of my podcast guests. One is, how long have you been self-employed?
Fred: I'm an old self-employed guy. I have been running my own business for 25 years now.
AJ: And you've recently segued into the consultant coaching side of the business. How long have you been doing that?
Fred: I started doing consulting about 15 years ago. As you can hear from my accent, I'm originally German, and I came to the US 6 years ago. Actually it was an interim management job as part of my consulting business. I did that for 4 years.
My specialty was helping to restructure companies. Based on that, I've now developed a system to help smaller businesses and startups to get up and running.
Learning from Burnout: Building Sustainable Business Practices
AJ: You sold a successful company because of burnout. Business owners and consultants think "I'll just push through this busy period. I'll just keep pushing through." Based on your own experience, what would you tell them?
Fred: I have two pieces of advice. The first thing is from day one, build a structure which is scalable. Don't just fiddle around alone and try to do everything yourself, because you get into an overwhelming situation really quickly, much quicker than you think.
Maybe when you start out, the second thing is - and that's really hard to do, especially at the beginning when you are under pressure for so many reasons financially, finding customers, and getting all the projects up and running - simply develop a daily routine which contains self-care.
This includes having breaks, doing some mind work like meditation to really get centered. Of course, part of it needs to be to deliver the business. But these are the things to really do it right from day one.
If you don't know how to do it, ask someone who has done it before and knows how to do it. There's so many people, especially on LinkedIn, who give great advice and they give free advice. They are happy to talk, so listen to them. Listen to the best.
Building a Self-Care Routine and Wellness Framework
AJ: I love what you said about making self-care a priority. Tell me about your self-care routine.
Fred: It took me many years to really develop it. You mentioned it was in 2008, and I remember like it was today when my world came crashing down because I got sick. I couldn't do my business anymore. I loved what I did, and what people don't believe is, even if you do only what you love, but if it's too much, it still makes you sick and gets you into the overwhelm.
My routine has two pillars for my well-being. One is mind work. So I get up in the morning, I meditate, and I read and I journal. That means I'm really fully centered before I start.
I have a couple of fixed points during the day, because what helps me is I have two Labrador dogs. So 7:30 is a fixed point in the day - they want to be fed. The mind work starts at 6:30 for an hour, 7:30 the dogs need to be fed. Then I start with my business work, and that goes until lunchtime. I take at least an hour, sometimes 90 to 120 minutes to really have a long break over lunch.
The next phase goes into the afternoon until 4:30, and then the dogs want to do something again. I walk the dogs for 45 minutes, and then I do some strength training. This is actually my framework.
As important as really having breaks and doing something for the body is simply healthy nutrition. I need to say it's not mandatory like I did it - I started doing it 15 years ago. I live vegetarian. So I eat very low amounts of dairy products and meat, but really just control what you're eating, control what you consume.
I know I shouldn't say that as I'm in America, but fast food is not a great idea. There is a term which says industrially processed food, and that's simply not healthy, because at the end of the day, it's not only that you get the fuel which keeps you alive - the calories - but you need to make sure you get the nutrition.
For instance, if you have those processed foods, they simply don't have the vitamins and the nutrition content you need. So I actually eat a lot of fruit, a lot of vegetables. I must really say I'm 65, and I'm fit like a fiddle.
Overcoming Business Development and Sales Resistance
AJ: You made an interesting comment when we talked earlier. You said consultants don't want to do business development. They want to do the work. Why do you think we resist the very thing that keeps us in business?
Fred: I think there are two reasons. One is, sales has a bad reputation. It has the reputation to talk people into something they don't really want.
But I think this is outdated. I mean, at the end of the day, I have a completely different approach. I have something to offer. I'm very experienced. I keep learning, and if I find a match between what I'm offering and what people need, people are very happy to work with me. They're grateful, they say, "Well, that's great to share the experience."
If you take an approach like this, it's not like talking people into something, but giving them your experience. Maybe we take this approach - it's unfair not to let them know what you have to offer, because they could benefit a lot from it.
AJ: I love it. You're doing them a disservice by not offering because you have a solution to a problem they have.
Fred: Exactly. It's like keeping a secret - it's not a good idea.
AJ: So there's one thing. What else do you think is underneath this resistance?
Fred: The other thing is, they are so focused on their consulting that they say, "I want to focus on that, because this is what they value highly." But, for instance, we met on LinkedIn - it's a social media platform, and there is a lot of work which goes into making a social media platform a tool which generates revenue, which really connects you with people who are interested in your services, and they just don't want to do it.
But I must really say maybe I started out like that too. Meanwhile, I find it very interesting to learn how to really nurture this platform and work on our platform. Another very important aspect - and it's very important because I am an introvert, I am a loner. You can lock me away in a mountain cottage for 14 days. Honestly, where's my computer? Where is Wi-fi? And I'm the happiest person alive.
AJ: I can so relate to you absolutely. We'd be in mountain cabinets right next to each other, and probably never talk.
Fred: Absolutely. But on the other hand, I got to know that - and really I must say you are one of them - I meet so many interesting and great people, and I benefit from them, and I hope that they benefit a little from myself. That is what social media does.
So I talk with people every day, and meanwhile I started to enjoy it, and you don't have to do small talk all the time. I mean, you find people who really want to discuss on a level which you find comfortable yourself.
So I find it very helpful. I get a lot of information, and especially information which I wouldn't find, because you only find things if you have the right questions. On LinkedIn, I get answers to questions I didn't even ask. I didn't even think about, because people are different. All of a sudden they come up with something they say, "Oh, my God, that's great," and I always like to learn and think about, "Well, this is a new piece of information. How can I incorporate that in my business, in my knowledge, in what I find important?"
Practical Advice for Overwhelmed Business Owners
AJ: Switching gears a little bit, some practical advice. If a business owner called you tomorrow, and they said, "I'm overwhelmed. I'm working 70-hour weeks. My revenue is inconsistent." What's the first thing you tell them to do?
Fred: I would start with them with a thorough analysis to really understand how they operate, especially us, as we are both entrepreneurs and solopreneurs. Many of them simply don't have the right systems. You can automate a lot of things, especially nowadays with artificial intelligence. This is such a great help.
I just thought about that this week - I think in certain areas my productivity has multiplied, I would say, between threefold and tenfold.
I couldn't do what I do. For instance, at the moment I have 3 projects where I post daily, so two are my own, and one is a customer project. I couldn't do that without AI. I tell you I do it in 90 minutes a day.
That's one of the examples. So there's so much you can do to work more efficiently. That's one thing. The second thing is - this is the part of doing things right, and the other thing is doing the right things. So really do I have to do everything which I'm doing, and that is something where a sparring partner can really help us.
If you have a sports person, a boxer, or I don't know a judo fighter, they all have trainers. They all have their coaches. Why? Because they give them supervision. I think that's important for business people too, and for entrepreneurs.
Conquering Perfectionism and Mindset Traps
AJ: You have said that leadership and mindset issues are at the root of most business problems. What's the most common mindset trap for self-employed consultants?
Fred: Perfectionism.
AJ: Okay.
Fred: I think perfectionism is a trap, and again, I'm a victim of that too.
Because if you think about it regardless what you do - if you generate content for social media, or if you say I want to set up a training program for my customers - you can always make it better. You can always do more. You can always make it nicer. But the thing is at some point, you need to say, "Listen, I need to show that to the world now, and I need to start selling it."
We are not in the era anymore where I remember when we did paper brochures for companies. What was the common thing? At the end of the day you had boxes with 500 brochures, and after the first hundred they were outdated.
But this is not happening online anymore. You can optimize that and improve that every day. There are two aspects which should not be underestimated. For instance, if I do something where you say, "My God, Fred, this isn't really great what you're doing," but you're not reaching through the screen, punching me. You will tell me so. It's not dangerous. That's the first thing.
The second thing is feedback from users or from colleagues who are on a certain level and people you value bring you to the so-called perfect solution, much quicker than sitting in your office and thinking about "Oh, my God! What can I improve? What can I improve?"
I like the 80/20 rule. It's the Pareto system. At the end of the day, it's that 20% of the effort generate 80% of the results. So why not do that?
There's a very simple trick - work with a deadline. I have a couple of things I want to improve. I will set up a program that I'm done with it on Sunday, because I want to show it to the world on Monday morning. And on Sunday it's done. Then I can do it in a second release, or in an improvement phase, and there are a couple of things which you can do to yourself to really overcome this perfectionism trap. It's not necessary.
AJ: Do you find that you have to work with your clients? Is it something that they confront, and that you have to work them through?
Fred: Yes, some of them have. I have a new customer, which I signed 2 weeks ago, and we're just in the early phases, which is very important. It's a customer who actually started working with a franchise system.
I think a franchise system is kind of a complete system. You can use it and just need to find customers. But I think it's widely underestimated. Even if you have the system, you need to know how to do it. You need to know how to communicate it, and so on. This is where we started, and even there perfectionism is an issue.
Because then they say, "But I saw someone who does the same thing, and they're so great. They're doing this and doing this," and I say, "But do it your own way, and try to find your own way. You can always do it only your way."
For instance, if you tell me, "Alfred, I'm so successful, and I have a 7-figure consultancy. Listen, you book a week of lessons with me, and then you can do the same thing." It's not working. It may work for you. But we are different people, and everybody needs to tailor things to their own needs and to their own personality.
For instance, I'm sure, even if we try, we can't convince the same people because we have a different energy, a different vibe. So you have people who want to work with you, and I have people who love to work with me, and that is what you need to figure out. This is what I try to teach people - that they say you need to find people who really want to work with you.
Finding Your Ideal Clients and Creating the Right Fit
AJ: That's so important. So many, especially early on, coaches and consultants and small business owners, they want to appeal to everyone because they don't want to run the risk of losing out on any money. But they're trying to be everything to everyone which doesn't work. They're freaked out. I have so many people who get upset because somebody said no. Well, it's good somebody said no, because if they weren't the right fit for you, the engagement wouldn't work.
Fred: That's very true. First of all, you can't work with everybody anyway, because you don't have the capacity for it. So don't worry if someone says no. The second, as you just said, there needs to be a fit.
I think, especially this customer I just talked about - we just found a certain level of communication very quickly within a couple of minutes, and he just said, "Fred, I want to work with you." I said, "Thomas, I haven't told you much," and he said, "I want to work with you because I like you as a person. I trust you." That was a matter of 5 minutes, and now we work together very well, and I must say it has taken a completely different direction than we thought before, because together we found out what he really needs.
AJ: Speaking of clients, who is your ideal client?
Fred: My ideal clients are entrepreneurs. I'm specialized in small businesses, small business owners. So I only want to work with businesses where I can work with the owners directly, not with big organizations. I just prefer to work with the owners directly, and usually they have already worked for maybe a year or 2 years, so they are not really startups, but they are quite young in the history as a company and as an entrepreneur.
Typically they have between 5 and 20 employees. So they have a certain organization. They need to start thinking about leadership.
If it comes to the mindset programs, most of the time the entrepreneurs are mindful of working on their mindset, but then they need to transport and transfer that to the employees, and that is where they say, "Well, I know a lot of things from experience, and I'm not really a teacher, and I don't have the time to work with all my employees," and that's where they book me.
Solving for Efficiency and Communication
AJ: And what problem do you solve for them?
Fred: Ultimately, it's about efficiency. Because if people are not working in line or there are, for instance, communication issues - very often, entrepreneurs and the owners of the company simply are so short of time. They just are very short with their communication. They say, "I do this and this, and this," and the employees complain and say, "Well, the boss never has time to really listen to me and explain to me properly," and that causes a lot of frictions. I help them to develop and use simple systems just to communicate better. For instance.
At the end of the day, it's all about efficiency and making the workplace an area where people like to work, because especially nowadays, where it's really difficult to find good people and it's expensive to find good people, don't forget that it's important to really make sure that people work together, that they like the workplace, and only if they like the workplace and love the workplace and respect colleagues and respect the owners, they are really efficient, and work at the best performance.
So that is actually what I help them with.
The Mountain Leadership Program: A Unique Approach
AJ: I was going to ask about your approach. Tell me about the Mountain Leadership Program.
Fred: I started having the identity of a consultant, and I think consulting - there are so many. I said mentoring is maybe better. But meanwhile I have - you know I grew up in the Alps, and all my young life I was rock climbing and everything, and I remember that the best leadership examples I experienced was by mountain guides.
So if you say, "I want to make this summit. It's a little challenging. So I better find someone who helps me show me the way to get to the summit and to the peak." That is actually what I remembered. This is why I called my leadership program, which I developed, the mountain leadership program because I took this analogy of climbing a mountain.
This has two aspects, and I just recently had a very prominent case in Germany, where a super mountain climber, a young woman 32 years old. She was an Olympic athlete with 2 gold medals and everything, and then focused on mountain climbing. She died. It's almost the same thing. They reached a summit, and then she died from a falling rock on the descent, and that is, there is a big analogy to business too.
You don't only have to reach the peak. So that is the performance part.
The whole project is at the end when you sit at home safely in your kitchen sipping a cup of coffee, and then the project is over. That is actually where you say, you don't only deliver your customer projects, but you stay healthy. You don't lose people on the way because you request too much from them. You just push them to the limit, or you push yourself into a burnout.
So that is why I use this analogy.
AJ: That's a great analogy. I love that it's not just getting to the peak summit. It's getting down safely. What also occurred to me as you were talking about that is that those really experienced mountain climbers that still hire a guide. Technically they probably could get up the mountain on their own, but they recognize the importance of having somebody who is an expert on that mountain.
Fred: Exactly. You need to be able to read the weather, the terrain, and everything. For instance, there are meanwhile a lot of movies from climbing the Mount Everest and all those prominent, difficult areas, or Denali in Alaska. I mean, this is maybe the most difficult mountain to climb, because the weather conditions are so difficult and so uncertain. That's why they use those local guides who can read the clouds and the wind and everything, and know when it's a good time to simply start the ascent.
AJ: And you are the guide for your clients.
Fred: Yes, I hope so.
Key Advice for Aspiring Consultants
AJ: As we start to wrap up, if you could go back and give your younger self one piece of advice when you were just starting out as a consultant, what would it be?
Fred: I am a multifaceted person, which is a good thing. I love it, but as a business person it's sometimes difficult. It's sometimes difficult to really focus on one thing, and I had to learn the hard way that from the customer point of view and from a customer side, complexity is not appreciated because complexity confuses people so really keep it simple.
Think about what you want to deliver, keep it, apply the KISS system, so really keep it simple and stupid, and make sure people understand what you're selling. That is really hard to really keep it simple, and I think it was FDR, Franklin Roosevelt, who always said to people who wanted something from him, "Summarize it in one page."
Then people said, "I can't summarize in one. There's a lot of material," and he said, "If you can't summarize it in one page, you haven't thought about it enough, or you don't understand it yet."
AJ: Keep it simple, stupid! Good advice.
What Successful Consultants Do Differently
AJ: What's one thing successful consultants do that struggling ones don't?
Fred: I think the successful consultants, they all have systems, so they have a certain methodology which they developed and which they keep improving and optimizing with that, together with their customers. The nice thing as a consultant is that you don't only teach like a teacher, but you learn a lot from the feedback because you always get into situations which you didn't expect, and then you have to find a solution. You can't just say "I don't know" - that's simply an answer which is not existing for a consultant.
You can say "I don't know it now," or "I have to figure it out." But sitting back and saying "I don't know," you can't do that.
That is actually the most important thing - our brain power is limited. So keep our brainpower for the questions which really challenge you and the rest, which is standard. Make sure you have systems to get the standard rolled out, because that is what the customers appreciate. You say, "For the standard questions I have standard solutions which I can use, and where I can reference like with something you give them. I have a resource group where you can look up a lot of information and always take a reference and then keep the really your top brain power for the difficult stuff which you can't anticipate."
That's happening in each of the projects. That's something you say, "Oh, my God, what am I doing now. I didn't expect that." This is where I need to have enough brain capacity and not just waste it on standard stuff.
I think the good ones know that systems, and then, being fresh and being energetic to solve the problems which are really challenging.
The SMILE System Framework
AJ: Systems can run the full gamut. What are the most fundamental systems that a consultant needs?
Fred: It depends on what they're teaching. Based on my background that I was not a consultant all the time. So I started as a manager and leader in the automotive industry. Then I ran a machine building company for a couple of years, and if you run a small business including production and development, everything - I mean, you have the complete spectrum of things which is possible.
Most of the entrepreneurs I work with, they have that too, more or less. It depends on what they're doing, and that is why I developed a system which I call SMILE.
SMILE really encompasses everything in the business. S is systems. M is mindset. I is financial independence, because that's a very important thing to set up a system in a way that you gain financial independence. This works with leverage. I mean, if you are self-employed and you keep being in the selling your time for money, you will never gain financial independence. You need to gain leverage approach.
L is leadership, and E is exercise so simple. Like I said, I walk the dogs, and I have a 10-minute workout routine works perfectly for me. I can only say, "Well, this is what I can share with you." I'm not a personal trainer or something like that, but the SMILE systems encompasses everything, and I don't say that I can teach people everything, but I can give foundation ideas to make them to get them into the position that they say, "Okay, so for instance, leadership? I have a 6-month leadership program which has lessons every week. This is a good foundation, and I always want to give people the foundation to say, 'I have something which I have learned. Fred has discussed this with me, and this is where what I can take to climb another mountain.'"
AJ: So SMILE. Tell us again what SMILE stands for.
Fred: SMILE. It starts with systems. You need systems. M is you need to develop your entrepreneurial mindset. I is, you need to develop independence, especially financially. L is leadership. You need to have a great leadership systems and use it every day starts with value, starts with how you treat people and how you want to be treated with people. And E is simply your healthy body - exercise. Move. Get out of your chair. Don't hang around in the office all the time.
Finding Satisfaction in Client Relationships
AJ: The last question. You've rebuilt yourself after burnout, and you've built a successful consulting practice. What gives you the most satisfaction about your work now?
Fred: Interaction with people. I just love working with people and have this - I call it an exchange of energy. So I put everything in every relationship I have, regardless if it's a partner, or if it's a customer. For me, it's all relationships. So I give everything. I get a lot back, I must say, and I think I get a lot of feedback that people appreciate that.
AJ: Does it surprise you being an introvert? Does it surprise you that that's what gives you satisfaction?
Fred: It surprised me a big deal, I must say. I must say it took years until I understood that this is important, and that I'm good at it. I didn't know it.
But they're little things like, I just talked about this one new customer. He's in a tough spot, because his new business, this franchise doesn't really work yet. So he needs to figure out how to find customers. That's what we're working on at the moment. What he is in the situation that he works full time. He didn't want to, but he still works full time. On the other hand, he wants to promote his business.
So I said, "Thomas, so when do we want to have our introduction call," and he said, "I need you, but I have no time." When we ended up talking on Sunday, 7 o'clock in the evening after church, he said, "Why are you doing this?" I said, "Because this is my service mind, and if you have time on Sunday at 7 o'clock, then we talk at Sunday, 7 o'clock. That's no problem."
He was totally blown away. "Why are you doing this? I don't do it for everybody, but you need it, and if you need it I'll do it."
AJ: Relationship.
Fred: Taking relationships seriously. This is the way it shows. If you say, "I don't care if I can help you, but because my work is finished Friday, 5 pm," then I think it's a little difficult. I wouldn't appreciate that, to be honest.
I mean, there's no justification being paid if you don't show up when the customer's time. It's the same thing, for instance, if you run a restaurant - I mean, you can't run a restaurant between 8 am and 12 pm. People want to have dinner.
It's the same thing you need to have time when the customers need you, or when the customers have time. That's the service industry, and I think, consulting or guiding, or however you name it, it's a service based business.
Closing
AJ: Well, thank you, Fred, this has been a wonderful interview, and it's a wrap on this episode of Thriving Through.
Fred: Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure talking with you, and it was challenging too, because we didn't rehearse a lot, and especially with your questions. I had fun.
