ļ»æBryan Raya Full Interview Transcript
THE COVID CAREER CRISIS THAT SPARKED A PIVOT
AJ: Welcome to today's episode of the Thriving Through Podcast. Today, my guest is Dr. Bryan Raya. And remember that it's a ray of sunshine. And Bryan, Dr. Raya is a ray of sunshine, so welcome, Dr. Raya.
Bryan: Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here. Thank you so much.
AJ: Very cool. Well, during COVID, you had a what-am-I-doing-with-my-life moment that led you to leave academia. So walk me through what happened, that decision-making process that made you make that decision.
Bryan: Yes, thank you. I think, like many other people, back in 2021, around that time, for those couple years, I think a lot of people were kind of thinking about what they wanted to do. And I was teaching college at the time. And the job was okay, but I can just tell you the energy of students, and I was just thinking about how education was going to be for the next 10 to 20 years, all that affected how society was going to be affected. And I just was going like, what could I do? And I thought I'd try to apply for some different positions, which I did, and I applied to a whole bunch of different colleges, trying to maybe just find a good fit, what would be good. And I had some interviews, and I was a finalist, even got an offer or two. But just nothing really just seemed to kind of settle and feel good about what I wanted to do.
And I just think that really comes back from those kind of conversations, like what am I doing? How can I affect people? How can I bring positive impact to the people around me? And even kind of going like, well, what else could I do besides teaching in college and academia that I can actually help others? And I just think that's an idea that a lot of people had. What else is there for me? What are my priorities in my life? With family, personal life, and career, and everything. I think it's all those type of questions that I really had a lot during that time that just kind of, as I was going through that application process, job process, and nothing really kind of panning out, really kind of go, well, maybe entrepreneurship. What about business? What about other things that would be interesting to me as an individual, as a person, but also to who I serve and who I help?
WHEN TIMING FORCES YOUR HAND
AJ: So what finally... you were doing some job interviews, you even got an offer. What finally tipped the scales toward taking the leap into entrepreneurship?
Bryan: Part of it's just timing. When it comes to teaching and jobs like that, there's a cycle for those jobs. So jobs get posted in the fall and the winter, and maybe early spring, to start in August, because that's when schools start. So I was going through that entire process, January through June, and it was just like, well, it's here it is, June, July, nothing's really panning out. And it's like, well, it looks like I am not going to be starting teaching anywhere this coming August.
So I was like, well, I have two options. Either restart the cycle again and look for a job that's starting the following year, or make a pivot. And I think it was probably around that July, I was like, you know what, let's look at some other things. Not saying I was going to completely abandon it, but let's explore it, because I have the time to. I have the time to look at entrepreneurship. So I was really looking in July and August at other ideas that I could do. And that's when I launched my business by October, to kind of see, well, let's try this for a while, and then keep an eye. But I just kind of decided to stay with the business, because I was enjoying it. I was like, oh, this is hard, it's different, but it's fun. But that's what's kind of like that pivot. It was really just timing, just because of how the job cycle works in education.
DISCOVERING THE BOOKKEEPING NICHE
AJ: Right, right. You kind of were missing the window for that academic year, so it gave you the opportunity to think about other things. Tell me about that pivot. How did you decide to do the business that you're doing?
Bryan: Yeah, so I was looking at... as a college band director, we manage projects, and at first I was thinking project management, like maybe I can go in the corporate world and oversee project management. I actually took a project management course, but I was like, okay, this is kind of cool. But then I was kind of looking about, well, what else do I like? And I've always liked money, and I liked numbers.
So actually, my dissertation when I got my doctorate was a big national survey asking organizations what's the financial trends of adult community bands? And I was asking them, how do you make money, and what do you spend your money on? Which is basically bookkeeping. What are your expenses, and what's your revenue? And I was like, oh. And once I started taking that project management stuff, I started thinking about more of my business. I was like, wait a minute, that's bookkeeping. And I kind of started putting the pieces together. This is something I already like. I've already done research on this, but just from a different perspective and angle, 5, 6 years ago.
I was like, well, let's just keep going with that, but broaden that out besides just music, but to all business. Because what I learned was money is money. Business is business. Doesn't really matter what the medium is, but everybody has revenue, and everybody has expenses. And understanding that language was universal among all types of entities.
DEFINING THE TARGET MARKET
AJ: So who's your target market? Ideal client.
Bryan: Yeah, so when I first started, I was like, musicians, because I was... I'm a musician. I was like... and then I was like, oh, that's kind of a tougher market, because musicians struggle financially. They don't really make a lot of money, and I'm trying to ask them for money to be my business. I was like, well, who else could I target?
So I really like working with service-based industries. So that does include musicians, artists, creatives. That is one of my pillar target markets, but also that goes into home services, cleaning services, maybe handyman services, things like that. And there's health and wellness services, personal coaches, health coaches, yoga instructors, massage therapists. And then there's obviously in the digital space, there's professional services, coaches, consultants, anybody who's doing any type of marketing, social media management. So it's a lot of service-based people who are doing stuff for other people, but their business, they don't think about. They just know the service they do.
AJ: Right. I get it, I get it. So how did you get your first client?
GETTING STARTED ON UPWORK
Bryan: I got my first client actually through Upwork. So I had to build up my profile, experience, whatever. Obviously when you start, you don't have anything. So I was kind of going through proposals and pitching myself and saying, hey, I can help with this, I can help with that. And I was doing those type of really low-level jobs, like inputting receipts, reconciling accounts, doing reports, basic stuff. But it was just to get the experience and to get me comfortable. I didn't know QuickBooks Online. I had never used it. I only knew bookkeeping in theory and in application but not through software.
So I really had to learn the ins and outs of it, and those freelance projects really helped. I was like, okay, here, I'm gonna reconcile your checking account. How do I do that? Let me learn how to do that real quick, and then let me execute. And I think it was with that, I just learned quickly because I had to. It was just like, well, I gotta figure this out because they need it done. So that really helped me. And then from there, I started getting some more projects on that. And then from there, I was able to get some more clients through referrals and some social media outreach and things like that. And that's kind of where I've been building. It's been different ways of doing it all.
AJ: Right. And you do monthly retainers, correct?
BUILDING RECURRING REVENUE THROUGH RETAINERS
Bryan: Yeah, yeah. So now in my business, I primarily do monthly retainers. That's my primary source of revenue. I still will do, every now and then, a project here or there. But really I'm more focused on those ongoing relationships because I think you get more value from the client that way. You're able to help them on a more consistent basis versus just one-offs here and there. And it also helps with my revenue stream as well, being able to plan ahead and go like, okay, well, here's my base. I need to get this many new retainer clients. Or if I'm gonna lose a client here or there, what does that look like? And I can plan my business better that way, versus just going like, well, I hope I get a project. That's not a good way to run a business.
AJ: No, it's not. So did you start that way, or was that an evolution?
Bryan: That was an evolution. I think when I first started, it was just projects because I didn't even know what I was doing. I was just like, well, let me just do this and see what happens. And then as I got comfortable with what I was doing, I was like, okay, well, I can offer this as a retainer. And I started doing that. And then I realized, oh, this is much better. This is much more sustainable. This is what I want to do. So it was definitely an evolution over time.
THE MESSY MIDDLE OF ENTREPRENEURSHIP
AJ: Right. So how long did it take you to kind of get your feet underneath you and feel like, okay, I know what I'm doing, I have a business model, I have clients, this is working?
Bryan: I would say it's still messy. I think that's just the reality of it. But I would say probably around that 6 to 9 month mark, I was feeling pretty good. But I would say it wasn't until probably the year mark where I was like, okay, I think I got this. But even then, it's still like you're constantly learning and growing. And I think that's just the nature of entrepreneurship. You're always kind of in this state of figuring things out. But I would say that first year was definitely the hardest because you're just learning everything. You're learning the business, you're learning the clients, you're learning the software, you're learning how to market yourself, you're learning how to price yourself. There's so much that you're learning.
And I think a lot of people, they get discouraged in those first 3 to 6 months because they're not seeing the results they want. And I think that's where a lot of people give up. But I think if you can push through that and get to that 6 to 12 month mark, that's when you start seeing things click. And that's when you start going like, okay, I think I can do this. I think this is sustainable. So it definitely takes time.
AJ: Yeah, and I think a lot of people, they want it to happen overnight. They want it to be easy. And it's just not. It's hard work. It takes time. It takes patience. And I think that's one of the biggest lessons I've learned in my own business is just being patient with the process and trusting that if you keep showing up and you keep doing the work, eventually it will pay off.
Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's where a lot of people struggle is they want that instant gratification. They want that immediate success. And it's just not realistic. You have to put in the time. You have to put in the effort. And you have to be patient with yourself and the process. And I think that's one of the hardest things for people to do.
UNDERSTANDING DIFFERENT REVENUE MODELS
AJ: So let's talk a little bit about revenue models. Because I think a lot of consultants, they start out and they're just charging hourly. And then maybe they move to project-based pricing. And then maybe they move to retainers. Can you talk a little bit about the difference between those and why you prefer retainers?
Bryan: Yeah, so I think when you're first starting out, hourly makes sense because you don't really know what you're doing. You don't know how long things are going to take. So you're just kind of like, well, I'll just charge by the hour and see what happens. And I think that's a good starting point. But I think as you get more comfortable and you understand your processes and you understand how long things take, you can start moving to project-based pricing.
And project-based pricing is great because you know exactly what you're going to make. The client knows exactly what they're going to pay. There's no surprises. And I think that's a good middle ground. But I think where you really want to get to is retainers, because retainers give you that recurring revenue. They give you that predictability. You know every month, okay, I'm going to make this much money from my retainer clients. And then anything else is just bonus.
And I think from a client perspective, retainers are great too because they know they have that ongoing support. They're not just getting help once and then they're on their own. They know they can reach out to you anytime. They have that ongoing relationship. And I think that's where you get the most value for both parties. So that's why I prefer retainers.
WHY CONSULTANTS SHOULD UNDERSTAND BOOKKEEPING
AJ: So let's talk a little bit about why consultants should care about bookkeeping. Because I think a lot of consultants, they're like, oh, I'll just figure that out later. Or I'll hire someone to do that. Why should consultants care about their bookkeeping?
Bryan: I think it's because your numbers tell you the story of your business. And if you don't understand your numbers, you don't understand your business. You don't know if you're profitable. You don't know where your money's going. You don't know what's working and what's not working. And I think that's really important.
And I think a lot of consultants, they get into consulting because they're good at what they do. They're experts in their field. But they don't necessarily have the business background. They don't necessarily understand the financial side of things. And I think that's where they struggle. Because they're like, well, I'm doing all this work, but I don't know if I'm making money. I don't know if this is sustainable.
And I think bookkeeping gives you that clarity. It gives you that understanding of, okay, here's where my money's coming in. Here's where my money's going out. Here's what I'm spending on. Here's what I'm making. And I think that's really important for making informed decisions about your business. Whether it's pricing, whether it's investments, whether it's growth. You need to understand your numbers to make those decisions confidently.
THE STRUGGLE WITH DELEGATION AND SCALING
AJ: So let's talk a little bit about scaling. Because I think a lot of consultants, they get to a point where they're doing well, they're making good money, but they're maxed out on their time. And they're like, I can't take on any more clients. How do I scale? What's your experience with that?
Bryan: Yeah, I think that's a challenge that a lot of people face. And I think it's a good problem to have, right? It means you're doing well. It means you have demand. But it also means you're at capacity. And I think the natural next step is to start delegating and bringing on help.
And I'll be honest, that's something I've struggled with. Because I'm a perfectionist. I want things done a certain way. And I'm like, well, no one can do it as good as me. Which is probably not true, but that's the mindset I had. And I think that's held me back for a while. But I've been working on that. I've been working on letting go of some of that control and trusting other people to help.
And I think what's helped me is starting small. Not trying to hire a full-time employee right away, but working with freelancers, working with contractors, working with people on a project basis first to see how it goes. And I think that's been really helpful because it's allowed me to test the waters without making a huge commitment.
And I think as I've done that, I've realized, okay, there are people out there who can do this work. And maybe they can even do it better than me in some cases. And that's been a really good learning experience. So I think that's the key to scaling is learning to delegate, learning to trust other people, and building that team around you so you're not doing everything yourself.
BUILDING CONFIDENCE IN PRICING
AJ: Let's talk about pricing. Because I think a lot of consultants struggle with pricing themselves appropriately. They undercharge because they don't feel confident in their value. What's your experience with that?
Bryan: Yeah, I think that's a huge issue. And I think it comes down to confidence. I think when you're first starting out, you don't have that confidence yet. You're like, well, I'm just starting. I don't have a lot of experience. So you charge less. And I think that's natural. But I think as you gain more experience, as you get more comfortable with what you're doing, you need to raise your prices.
And I think a lot of people are afraid to do that because they're afraid they're going to lose clients. They're afraid no one's going to pay that. But I think what I've learned is that there are people out there who will pay for quality. There are people out there who value expertise. And if you're providing that value, you should be charging accordingly.
And I think it's also about positioning. It's about how you present yourself. It's about the confidence you have in your own abilities. And I think as you build that confidence, it becomes easier to charge what you're worth. But it definitely takes time. And I think it's a journey that every consultant has to go through.
LEARNING TO SCALE THROUGH COLLABORATION
AJ: So how are you doing on that delegation front now?
Bryan: I think I'm doing pretty well, actually. I think I've worked with content creators recently, here this year. Again, they're not necessarily full-time employees, but again, they're freelancers, they're doing stuff, but they're doing it on a much more recurring basis. And just being patient with that. It forces me to communicate better, make sure I understand what I see, and make sure I say what I want, and give them good feedback on what they see as well.
So I think it's been a great process here in the last 6 to 9 months, experiencing that as I kind of prepare for kind of next phases of collaboration. I'll work with a CPA. We've been doing some big projects and working together on how that works. So I think that's been a positive thing too.
RAPID-FIRE WRAP-UP QUESTIONS
AJ: Well, we're nearing the end of the podcast, and I have some rapid-fire wrap-up questions I ask everybody.
Bryan: Alright, lovely. Bring it.
AJ: So the first one is, what is one book, podcast, or resource that's been invaluable to your consulting practice?
Bryan: Alex Hormozi's The Game. I love that podcast. I'm a big fan of Alex Hormozi, his content. I have all of his books from his $100 million series. I recommend that for any entrepreneur, his offers, his leads, his money models. Outstanding stuff. But I just think that he just kind of gets to the nitty-gritty of like, business is hard. Suck it up and get through it. He doesn't really sugarcoat it, doesn't say anything. He just kind of gives a very realistic approach, which I think is very refreshing. Where everyone's like, oh, it's so easy to make 10 grand in a month, just by following this simple course. That is not the reality of it.
And I just think that he reminds us that yes, business is simple, but there's still work, hard work that has to be done. So check out The Game by Alex Hormozi. It's on everywhere, on his YouTube channel and Spotify. But that's my go-to for sure.
AJ: I will add it to my list. Next question. What's one piece of advice you wish someone had given you when you started out consulting?
Bryan: To be more patient. I wish somebody would tell me, like, be patient with the process and just do more of it, what you think. As I mentioned before, do more, be more patient, and just take time, and good things will come. That's what I wish somebody would tell me those first 3 months.
AJ: Okay, good things will come. I have a business coach who likes to say, success is inevitable. Which, if you keep going, you keep doing the work, yeah, that's a nice... that's true. Success may not come in the first 6 months or the first year, but you keep at it, keep learning and growing.
Bryan: And I think that another great quote is kind of like, there's different variations of that, we as humans overestimate what we can do in a year, but underestimate what we can do in 10 years. That's powerful too. Like, you have to think a little bit longer and broader with what you're trying to do. Again, that could be a month to a year, or one year to 10 years. I think that's just a good perspective to put it on at all.
AJ: Absolutely, yes. And the final and most important question, how can listeners connect with you if they want to learn more about your work?
Bryan: Oh, awesome. I feel like I'm everywhere. But on most places, the most, I said, I have my YouTube channel at DBRBookkeeping.com. You can just search on my YouTube, great content. My website, dbrbookkeeping.com. I'm on social media as far as Facebook and LinkedIn, all with the same brand, DBR Bookkeeping. I'm also on School, the new platform. It's not a newer platform, but it's a growing platform where it's community-based, S-K-O-O-L. Alex Hormozi is actually one of the co-owners of it all. But I have a school community called DBR Bookkeeping. So if you just search for DBR Bookkeeping, you're going to find me in all types of platforms. And I would love to connect with anybody who just wants to chat business, talk numbers, and just see how we can just be better and start doing business right.
AJ: Okay, good. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Bryan Raya. I really appreciate you being on the podcast today.
Bryan: Thank you so much. I really appreciate the time, and thank you for this invitation. It's been awesome. Thank you so much.
