ļ»æMark Rapier Full Interview Transcript
Introduction and Path to Consulting
AJ: Welcome to the Thriving Through Podcast. Thank you, Brian. Hi, good to hear. Yes, I'm happy to be with Mark Rapier. Mark has a wonderful story. He is a semi-retired consultant, so we will find out more about that. But first, Mark, I want to ask you a question about your path to becoming a self-employed consultant. What was your path?
Mark: Well, my path was accelerated. I had started planning for it probably around 2018, 2019, because I knew I wanted to hit retirement age, and I didn't want to work 60-hour weeks anymore and be on airplanes 45 weeks a year. So I was framing out what a practice would look like. And then COVID accelerated that process by about 3 years. I jumped into it, sort of into the deep end, because all my collateral wasn't quite ready and everything else, but you go where life takes you.
AJ: Exactly. And what happened during COVID that caused you to accelerate your timetable?
Mark: Well, the company I was working for at the time, because I was always a consultant, that's one thing I have. I was always a consultant, and when there was more work than people, life was okay. When there's more people than work, choices get made. And the nature of the company that I was with, being a full partnership model, I wasn't on the partner track. So I was in the wedding. This is how business works.
AJ: Exactly. So, you've been a consultant for many, many years. So the skill of consulting is nothing new for you. But running your own consulting business was very new. So, tell me what the difference is between working for in a big company with tons of resources, and being a solo self-employed consultant.
Transitioning from Big Firm to Solo Practice
Mark: There's a couple things. One, you lose access to a lot of internal resources that you could just leverage to create content, or whatever you wanted to do. You have to do your own business development. And there's just that infrastructure that supports you as a consultant working for a large consulting firm that just, obviously, I had to decide what I wanted to recreate, and decide what I wanted to leave behind. And that was the early part of the process.
And then the next thing, part of it is, I had to understand why I really wanted to do it. I just sort of vaguely knew, but it really comes down to, I enjoy what I do, I'm good at it. I want to keep learning, but I also want to help my clients learn and be successful. So it's more of that symbiotic relationship where we both get to learn. And we coach them to success, and it keeps me busy and out of my wife's hair.
AJ: I love it. So, it sounds like the why, why you wanted to do this was pretty important, and that pretty early in the process, you recognized that you needed to have a maybe more compelling why.
Mark: Not so much a more compelling why, but probably more focused than I had gotten to that point. It's because I had to decide what kind of consultant you want to be. I tend to view life in Venn diagrams. You can be an independent consultant. But in practice, you could end up being working as if you were an independent contractor, performing a specific set of tasks. You could be a consultant where you're brought in to help run a project or a specific initiative. Or you can be an advisor, where you're helping people pull things together and make their plans and help them make those plans work.
So, as I think about those three parameters, and they overlap, I mean, there's a bit of, you've got to do a bit of all of them in this, but my focus is being the advisor.
Defining Your Role and Value Proposition
Mark: When I introduce myself to clients, I tell them that I help you map digital journeys and guide your teams and your leadership to success. I don't want to do the work, because one, they know their business better than I ever will, even though I know a lot. And two, I really want to teach them how to become more self-sufficient. One of the things a lot of consulting firms do is they really don't enable their clients to do it themselves. Now I'm in a position where that's my goal, is to help them learn how to do a lot of this stuff on their own.
AJ: I sort of the three types of consultants. I think that makes a lot of sense. And I also think that you, by being able to articulate the type of consultant you are, is also probably what distinguishes you from other consultants. Am I correct?
Mark: I hope that's true. And one of the things I actually do now with my clients, I always start with either a small project, usually they're shorter in duration and smaller scope so that we can both see if we want to engage with each other. Right, so I have actually walked away from situations because I could tell that, one, this was not somebody I wanted to be associated with. And two, and I actually ran into this on a project within the last month, is I realized, yeah, I can do this, but I'm really not the right person for what you're trying to do.
And maybe 10 years ago in my career, I probably would have taken it because I wanted the revenue, I wanted my numbers to hit where they needed to be. But now what I've noticed is being able to say, "you know what, I'm going to refer you to people who can help you a lot better than I can help you. They'll bring you better value for your money." And first, that's been interesting, because it's liberating to be able to make those kinds of choices, and it's surprising how much goodwill you generate with the people you turn down.
Building Reputation Through Referrals
AJ: That's fascinating. And so when you turn people down and recommend someone else who would be better suited, do they come back to you?
Mark: Yeah, and also they refer me to other people. There have been a couple opportunities where I worked on it for a couple weeks with them, and I said, "you know what, this just isn't going to work. Here's what I think you need." And I help them find somebody else. And it's turned out that a couple of those people have referred other people to me that I've been able to work with and help. Because the, the process is, I think, when people realize that I'm not necessarily looking for money at all costs, and I want to help people do things, I will really be earnest in helping you, even if you don't pay me for it.
AJ: So it sounds like you have very defined values about who you want to work with and what type of work you will do, which is one of the things I think when you work for yourself, many of us who are self-employed consultants, we, we think that we should do all the things, help all the people, and so we keep saying yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Mark: And I had to do that the first couple years just because I was getting established.
AJ: Right. You had to prove yourself, and you needed to make some money.
Mark: But I also at the same time knew it's not going to happen overnight. We're not going to, I mean, I remember joking with some people that I went to the post office and got my business license, and I did not get the line of people standing outside my house waiting to give me their money. I had to go out and find them. So, be prepared for the effort it takes, because it's a journey. But one of the things it's really reinforced with me is one, the value of developing and maintaining my network. Two is always do what's right by your clients. There were a couple instances where the cost of a project overran and hit my margin, I just ate it because it was the right thing to do for the client.
AJ: So, what I'm hearing is, be willing to lose money sometimes in order to keep those clients, keep that reputation.
Mark: Well, and reputation is a really interesting thing because you spend a lot of time and effort getting and building a reputation, and you can throw it all away very quickly with one bad experience on the part of a client. So the relationship you build with your clients is more valuable than the money. Because if you provide them good value in a good relationship, the money follows, but the money becomes the trailing part of what you're doing.
The Business of Consulting: Pipeline and Growth
AJ: So I want to switch to the business of running a consulting business. So I think that our audience, my audience would probably be curious about how do you find clients, how do you, what does your business development look like?
Mark: It's a combination. I will say that the first two years I spent a lot of time attending every Chamber of Commerce, every alumni event, every professional association meeting where you could get as a guest, different things. I was out to meet people, meet people, meet people, meet people. And a lot of them, nothing will ever come from them, but somebody would introduce me to somebody, and they would introduce me to someone else. So I actually found that networking was critical to just begin to get things established.
Then leveraging my own network of former colleagues, former clients, people that I actually worked with on projects saying, "hey, this is what I'm doing. If you hear somebody doing something, drop my name because I'd love to talk to them." And I did get some connections through those folks. Now, this is where it evolves, because now I'm at the point where most of my work comes through referrals of people who have either worked with me or people who know me well enough that they're comfortable putting me in front of their clients.
AJ: So right now your business development is pretty much through referrals?
Mark: A lot of it is through referrals and also through my active involvement in a couple different business groups. I'm part of a peer group of executives that meets monthly, and there are a dozen of us. I get a lot of contacts through them. I am an active member of a large professional network of people who are in similar lines of work. And a lot of times people find they've got a client, but it's outside of their wheelhouse, and they'll refer them to me because they know I'll take care of them.
And I also provide the same service for them, because there are things I don't want to do. And I know people who love to do it, so I'll gladly get them connected with the client and then just step back and let the two of them work it out. It's good for all parties, and I like that.
AJ: So it sounds like you're very intentional about growing your network and being a resource for other consultants.
Mark: I think that's important because, you can't be good at everything. And just recognizing the fact that other people have skills, other people have interests, and there's plenty of work. And if you just worry about yourself, you are your own worst enemy because you can't do it all, and you can't be everywhere. So the more you can be helpful to others, the more others will be helpful to you. It's one of those things where karma does work.
Pricing and Value-Based Relationships
AJ: So I also wanted to, I wanted to ask you about pricing. How do you price your work? Do you do project-based? Do you do hourly? What does that look like for you?
Mark: It depends on the engagement. If it's something where we're going to have what I call an ongoing relationship, where I'm working with someone on, as they work through a series of transformational initiatives and I'm helping them guide it, we actually have a monthly retainer.
So we sit down and agree on the scope of work and what the expectations are, what my monthly time commitment is going to be. And the nice thing about having the retainer is it provides me predictable revenue, which is important. It provides them predictable access to me, which is important to them. And we just work through it that way.
If it's a project, I will generally try to scope it and price it as a fixed price project with milestones. And this is a holdover from my days working in a big consulting firm, but it forces both you and the client to be very clear on what the expectations are, what gets delivered, and when things are due.
And if we start to find that the scope is shifting or evolving, then we can have a discussion about, "okay, we need to renegotiate this or restructure this, but here's how we're going to work through it together." And that has served me well, because it gives both the client and me visibility into where we are, and we don't get surprised.
AJ: I think that's a really smart way to do it. And I also think that when you have a retainer, it really is, it is a win-win for both you and your client because they know they have access to you, and you know that you have predictable income.
Mark: And the other nice thing is, when you have a good relationship with a client on a retainer, if all of a sudden something comes up and you need more time in a month, they're usually pretty accommodating to say, "okay, we'll work through this." And then maybe next month you don't work as many hours, so it balances out. But because you've built the trust and the relationship, it's a lot easier to have those kinds of conversations.
Client Relationships and Repeat Business
AJ: So it sounds like you have some clients that you've worked with for a while. Is that accurate?
Mark: Yeah, I have a couple clients that I've had since the very first year, so we're now into our fourth or fifth year together.
AJ: Wow, that's amazing. So, what do you think is the secret to maintaining those long-term client relationships?
Mark: I think it's a couple things. One is always being transparent and honest with them about what's working, what's not working, where we're headed. Two is making sure that you're always providing value. If I find that I'm not providing value or if the relationship is becoming transactional instead of strategic, then I'll have a conversation with them about "maybe it's time for us to rethink this."
And the third thing is, I always make sure that I'm accessible. If they need me, I respond. I may not be able to drop everything and do something right that second, but I will acknowledge, "I got your message, here's when I can get to it," and I follow through. Because I think one of the things that frustrates clients the most is when they feel like they're being ignored or they're not a priority.
AJ: So communication, providing value, and being accessible. Those are the three keys to maintaining long-term client relationships?
Mark: I think so. And also being willing to have the difficult conversations when things aren't going well. Because if you can address issues early and openly, you can usually work through them. If you let them fester, then they become bigger problems that are harder to solve.
Semi-Retirement and Work-Life Balance
AJ: So I want to talk about the semi-retired part of your story. What does semi-retired mean for you?
Mark: Well, it means a couple things. One is I'm at a point in my life where I don't have to work 60 hours a week. I don't want to work 60 hours a week. I've got other things I want to do. I want to travel with my wife. I want to spend time with my kids and my grandkids. I want to pursue other interests.
So semi-retired for me means I work probably 20 to 30 hours a week on client work. And I'm very selective about the clients I take on and the projects I take on. Because I'm at a point where I don't need to take everything that comes my way. I can say no to things that don't interest me or that I don't think I can provide good value for.
AJ: So it's really about having the freedom to choose?
Mark: Exactly. It's about having the freedom to choose the work I want to do, the clients I want to work with, and the schedule I want to keep. And that's one of the benefits of being self-employed. You can design your business around your life instead of designing your life around your business.
AJ: I think that's a really important point. And I think a lot of consultants, especially when they're starting out, they feel like they have to say yes to everything, they have to work all the time, they have to be available 24/7. But what you're saying is, once you get to a certain point, you can actually design your business to fit your life.
Mark: Right. And I will say, the first couple years, I did have to work more hours. I did have to say yes to more things. I did have to be more available. Because you're building your reputation, you're building your client base, you're building your revenue stream. But once you get to a point where you have a stable base of clients and a stable revenue stream, then you can start to be more selective.
And I think that's important for consultants to understand, is that it's a journey. You're not going to get there overnight. But if you're intentional about building your business the right way, building good relationships, providing good value, eventually you can get to a point where you have more control over your time and your schedule.
Writing and Thought Leadership
AJ: So I know that you wrote a book. Tell me about that.
Mark: Well, the book came out of, I had been doing a lot of work around digital transformation and helping organizations think through how they adopt new technologies and how they change their business models. And I realized that there was a gap in the market for a book that was practical and actionable, that gave people a framework for thinking through these kinds of initiatives.
So I spent about a year and a half writing the book. It's called "The Leader's Journey: A Guide to Digital Transformation." And it's really designed to help executives and leaders think through, "okay, we know we need to transform, but how do we actually do it? What are the steps? What are the considerations? What are the pitfalls to avoid?"
AJ: So it's a practical guide?
Mark: It's a very practical guide. And one of the things I tried to do is make it accessible. I didn't want it to be academic. I didn't want it to be full of jargon. I wanted it to be something that a busy executive could pick up, read a chapter, and get something actionable out of it.
AJ: And has writing the book helped your consulting practice?
Mark: It has in a couple ways. One is it's established me as a thought leader in this space. So when people are looking for someone to help them with digital transformation, they can see that I've written a book on it, so I must know something about it. Two is it's given me a way to start conversations with potential clients. I can send them a copy of the book and say, "hey, here's my thinking on this. Let's have a conversation about how this applies to your situation."
And three, it's forced me to really clarify my own thinking about this stuff. Because when you have to write it down and explain it to someone else, you have to really understand it yourself.
Continuous Learning and Staying Current
AJ: So it sounds like continuous learning is really important to you.
Mark: It is. And I think it has to be for consultants, because the world is changing so fast. If you're not constantly learning and staying current, you're going to become obsolete very quickly. So I spend a lot of time reading, I listen to podcasts, I attend webinars, I participate in professional associations. I'm constantly trying to stay on top of what's new, what's emerging, what's changing.
AJ: And how do you balance staying current with actually doing the work?
Mark: I think you have to make it part of your routine. For me, I spend probably an hour a day just on professional development, whether it's reading or listening to something or watching a webinar. And I do that usually in the morning before I start my client work. Because I find that if I don't make it a priority and schedule it, it doesn't happen.
And I also think about it as an investment in my business. Because the more I know, the more value I can provide to my clients. And the more value I provide to my clients, the more successful I'm going to be.
AJ: So it's really about making learning a habit, not just something you do when you have time.
Mark: Exactly. It has to be a habit. And I think that's true for a lot of things in consulting. You have to have good habits around business development, you have to have good habits around client communication, you have to have good habits around learning. Because if you don't, things fall through the cracks.
Advice for Consultants: Read Widely
AJ: So, what's the best business book you've read in the last year that has influenced how you think about your consulting practice?
Mark: Oh, I can't pick one, it's the hard thing, because I listen to so much. I literally, I'm one of those people that probably reads 30, 40 books a year, plus articles every day.
My advice is, spread yourself out. If you're a marketing person, don't just read marketing. Don't just read business books. Read fiction. Read art history. Read history. Do things, stretch yourself laterally, because there's another book that I read, it's called Range. I forget who wrote it off the top of my head, but it talked to the point, Range, R-A-N-G-E.
And it's the concept of, as people move up in organizations, they become generalists. No CFO of a Fortune 2000 company got out of college and got that job. You know, through a process, they learn, they grew, and the more you know about more things, the easier it is to stretch and adapt when something you're unfamiliar with comes your way.
So my biggest advice is just to read everything, as much as you can. That's my big one. And you listen to podcasts, you watch YouTube channels that are appropriate. And sometimes, but watch some things just because they're fun. I mean, you know, my wife and I just finished watching The Diplomat this weekend. It's a great show, but it's fun. I mean, you've got to do all that, too. You've got to be well-rounded.
AJ: So not all serious stuff.
Mark: No.
The Best Advice: Always Prepare for the Next Wave
AJ: So what is one piece of advice you've given, you just gave a great piece of advice to the consultants listening to this. What's one piece of advice you wish someone had given you when you started your independent business?
Mark: When I started my independent business, I actually had a lot of good advice. I hired a coach. That was a good piece of advice, so I had a nice coach. I involved several of my close and respected colleagues, so when I was writing the book, they were reading the chapters behind me, giving me suggestions and comments. So, you can look for help that way from your close network of friends and associates, so you can do those kinds of things.
But the one thing I wish I'd thought of, and becomes something I do now, is there's a concept of always preparing for the next wave. Surfing is an analogy. I used it in today's newsletter. Surfing is an analogy. When you're on your board, you're looking at the wave, you're looking for promising swells. You pick one, you go to it, you get in it, and you ride the wave. But you have to exit at the right time so you don't get clobbered, you don't lose your board, so you can go look for the next wave.
And you've got to be paying attention to what's coming next, because it's easy if you get yourself enmeshed in a project on one thing, and you do two of those in a row, suddenly you're not, you're a commodity because your skills are old, and skills age so much faster now than they used to.
So you've always got to be thinking about what's the next different thing that you've never done before that you need to be prepared to be able to do for somebody. That builds on your pool of expertise, but is still more. So always look for the next thing.
AJ: Love it, and I love the surfing analogy.
Connecting with Mark
AJ: And finally, this is the most important question, how can listeners connect with you if they want to learn more about you and your work and your book?
Mark: Well, the book is available on Amazon, it's inexpensive, so you can just Google my name, it's the easiest, because I'm the only one out there who wrote a book. But the best way to get in touch with me is LinkedIn. That is my primary communications channel. You'll see everything that I write, and I always check for messages, and I'm looking forward to hearing from people.
AJ: Wonderful. And the link, the LinkedIn link will be in the show notes for those of you listening. Excellent. So, Mark, it has been a delight to interview you today. So, thank you so much for being a guest on the Thriving Through podcast, and for those of you listening and watching out there, keep thriving through.
Mark: Thank you very much.
