KIRSTIN BRENDERS FULL INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
INTRODUCTION: PATH TO CONSULTING
AJ: Welcome to this episode of the Thriving Through Podcast. Today, my guest is Kirstin Brenders. Kirstin, I'm so delighted to have you on the podcast today.
Kirstin: Oh, it's an honor to be here with you.
AJ: I always start out with the same question for all my podcast guests. What was your path to becoming a self-employed consultant?
Kirstin: My path—I think there were several steps before I got here. I was originally in corporate for about almost 20 years in corporate architecture and interior design. I really did enjoy that field and what I did. I was really into team building, client management, and project management. I enjoyed it leading up to becoming a mom and then the pandemic. Those two experiences just really shook my world in a good way, but shook things upside down and made me look at things in a different perspective.
THE ACCIDENTAL ENTREPRENEUR JOURNEY
Kirstin: My path to becoming an entrepreneur—I think I was more of an accidental one. It wasn't something that I sought out, but it was something that was the conclusion I came to after feeling a lot of burnout. So I stepped away from my corporate role, thinking that it was just a 6-month reprieve. In that time, I got to see women on LinkedIn or Instagram just leading their own businesses from their home or from abroad, and a whole world of opportunities opened up for me beyond my 9-to-5.
AJ: And you made that decision to go out on your own at that point?
Kirstin: That's when I did it. It was the step of, maybe let me test out this idea. I had this idea of freelancing. My pitch at the time was taking all of that big firm architecture knowledge to the small business world. So I started pitching services to help interior designers and architects behind the scenes build their businesses with systems improvements or process improvements to helping people hire. That's how I got my foot in the door. I tested that idea and freelanced with a few designers and had a couple of collaborations. Once I tested it and kind of tiptoed into it, I was like, I'm going all in. This is it for me.
DISCOVERING THE PIVOT THROUGH ENERGY ALIGNMENT
AJ: So initially it was interior designers, smaller individuals or smaller companies. Has your target market, your ideal client, evolved?
Kirstin: Yes, it has. I was used to working on big projects or projects in teams—teams of 12 or more. But I felt like my sweet spot was helping women with 5 or less teammates. I really got into helping those individuals. As I was going through those collaborations, a lot of them were gracious to call me a coach, a mentor, more than just helping them with management. It was really an opportunity to look at myself in a whole new light, which I very much appreciated.
As I was hearing that from my existing clients, I started having other women reach out to me that were out of my niche, out of my ideal client. They were reaching out to figure out how did I leave corporate and start a business, or how did I start serving who I was serving. They were maybe in the same industry as me but with a service-based business and wanting to attract more creative CEOs.
I think it was after the 8th call when somebody was like, can I pick your brain or can we have a discussion, I realized that they were looking for more than how-to or more than advice. They're looking for a roadmap and they're looking for a mentor, somebody who's been there just a few steps ahead of them. That's when I saw an opportunity to create a different revenue stream, a different service as well. I went all in on that, and I am currently in the middle of pivoting into online business coaching and mentorship.
Kirstin: What I discovered was when other women—yes, I was serving people that were in my industry for so long, and it was a joy to share that wisdom with them. But what really lit me up were those conversations when the women who were outside of my niche, the women who were still in corporate looking to figure out a different career path, started reaching out and asking me how did I do it, asking for advice.
I really learned after the eighth call that these were not conversations based on how do you do it or just simple advice. These women were actually looking for a mentor and a roadmap at the same time. I just did an energy check with how those conversations made me feel, and I knew that there was something else there, something else inside of me that I could offer.
What's so great about being an independent business owner is that you can kind of flex or evolve into other roles. That's where I am currently at. I am evolving and I am helping women build their online businesses or businesses after corporate.
AJ: I love that, and I love what you said about paying attention to what was lighting you up and that those conversations were lighting you up more than the path that you had started to go down. It is admirable that you listened to it. I think my tendency would have been to say, well, but I've already started down this path, and I've done all this work, and I'd have to go back and redefine my ideal client and change my LinkedIn profile. It's too much. But you didn't do that. You listened to your gut and your heart.
THE INTERNAL STRUGGLE WITH CHANGING DIRECTION
Kirstin: Yes, but don't get me wrong—that conversation did happen internally. When I was talking to people who were still in corporate or have their regular role, some people were like, so you're changing your business? And I'm like, no, I'm not changing my business. So I did have some of that internal challenge or thoughts about it.
But I think since I left—once I left that decision to kind of leave my role in corporate after having an education based in architecture and design and then pivoting out and being able to surrender that part of my identity—that was the work. So I think the decision to move along came about much quicker because I already did that before. I already hopped through that hurdle.
Yes, there was some doubt and there was some questioning, really evaluating what that meant. But it was more driven by how things felt, the energy of something. I was just very curious about where this could go, and that's what really propelled me forward.
AJ: When did this pivot happen? How long ago?
Kirstin: About a year ago.
BUILDING A HYBRID BUSINESS MODEL
AJ: And what are you doing differently now? Did you decide that you needed to get other skills?
Kirstin: Yes, correct. So I am in a role right now where I do serve, I work independently as a consultant in studio management—as a manager for a powerhouse interior designer. So I still have that side of me serving, supporting, building that team, helping her build that brand. She's the one with the vision, and I just really love helping whether it's a business or somebody's new career—just really helping them take that vision that they have and bring it to reality.
And then secondarily, yes, I lead a mentoring group with the women that I've worked with one-on-one. They stay within the community after we've worked one-on-one for several months. They still get the same support inside a community, so we have people cheerleading for what they're doing, whether that is a small step or a big announcement. We're there. Part of my role is to be there and leading that community as well.
In regards to skills, yes, some of the skills that I lean into are the coaching and the mindset work that I had to do on my own post-burnout from corporate, not necessarily from building my business, though building a business is the biggest self-discovery project you will ever have.
I was leaning a lot into the coaching that I received—working on my relationship with myself, my time, and my relationship with money. A lot of those things that I worked on with my own coach, I started obviously paying that forward and sharing some of that wisdom or how I got over a hurdle with the women today. So much so that it's inspired me—because I can study and I can learn, and I love mindset and I love professional and personal development—so much so that this has actually put me on the path to pursue a coaching certification as well.
THE CAREER COACH EXERCISE: ENERGY VS. DRAINAGE
AJ: I want to talk about burnout—your original impetus. When we did our pre-interview, you mentioned that your career coach told you that you were heading down another path to burnout when you were applying for a corporate job. So walk us through how you worked with her to identify what energized you versus what drained you in that context, and how that clarity influenced the business that you ultimately built.
Kirstin: Yes, very true. I was working still in that mindset of corporate is the only way to make money, the only way to feel successful. To me, at the time, success felt like having that title, that role, having that 401K and consistent income—stability. But as the pandemic shook things up for me, I learned that a 9-to-5 actually is not that stable as we all believe it to be. So one of those pillars fell during the pandemic—that a 9-to-5 is about stability, it's not.
The second thing I was shifting and working with her was, maybe the grass is greener on the other side. I was looking to stay within the niche of buildings and architecture but just maybe going towards the client side and not running a creative studio, looking at just a different role that maximized my project management experience.
As we looked at the job description, one of the homework assignments that she gave me was going through that job post and highlighting in one color the things that were energizing. What were the things that were energizing? And then what were the things in another color that sounded draining?
So I did the exercise, and through dialogue we were realizing I was highlighting salary and 401K. But some other things were lacking. One of the things that she saw was you were going to be working in isolation in this project, so it gives you the perfect title, great salary, but you wouldn't have a team. She clearly saw that, knowing that I teach and mentor the interns that would come through the firms that I worked at, she felt like I think you're going to feel isolated there. You don't have anybody to lean on, you don't have anybody to develop, you don't have anybody to essentially work with. You're kind of going to be in a silo.
And so that was kind of her invitation to me to look at this opportunity differently. We continued our dialogue over several weeks. As I was looking around and just going down the different streams of entrepreneurship, whether that is doing work as a freelancer, or doing work even, sometimes doing work as a consultant is different from freelancing. But she really created this safe space with me to open up and dream of what this could be. Really I found an opportunity there where I could still maximize my strengths and then build on my other skills because I wanted to get better. That's what led me to, well, let me test this out. Let me try this freelancing.
OVERCOMING FEAR OF NARROWING YOUR NICHE
AJ: One of the things that came up in the pre-interview was that you were initially afraid of narrowing your niche. What were you afraid of? Where did that fear come from?
Kirstin: I think it's a common fear that a lot of independent business owners and consultants have, is that you're maybe shutting out other opportunities. That was my original fear, or I'll just be known for this one thing. I can't pivot out of that. But I think now looking back at it, it's again about confidence in yourself and the breadth of your experience. When you narrow your niche, it doesn't mean you necessarily stop doing something or that you have to turn away work. It just means you're being more specific. You're giving more depth and context to the people to understand what it is that you do.
You're actually not necessarily closing doors, you're actually opening up more doors because people understand what you do. If you're the generalist and you try to do everything for everyone, then really I think you're just getting lost in the noise of everything else. I know in creative industries there's so many people doing so many things, so if I could just hone in on my certain part—what makes me unique, my unique value—then I am actually standing out and separating myself from the competition versus lumping myself with them.
AJ: You found that by being more specific about who you were going after that it actually attracted people who maybe weren't exactly your ideal client but were close enough or actually were a perfect match.
Kirstin: Yes, yes. And I think when I went more narrow, I was able to really express myself better. I was able to really share more of the ways that I could help, versus being really broad. When you're broad, you can't really go deep in the ways that you can serve somebody. So when I narrowed that, I was able to have more meaningful conversations with people, and I was able to show up and have great case studies or testimonials or examples that really could showcase the impact that I have on their business. I think when you're a generalist, you can't really show case studies or examples because you're doing so many different things. They're one-off experiences.
MARKETING SHIFT: FROM B2B TO B2C
AJ: How is your marketing going to be different with this pivot than it was before?
Kirstin: I think for me, I was originally talking to other business owners, so talking to small business owners. Now I'm going to be talking to individuals who are maybe stay-at-home moms that are looking to figure out a new career path or women in corporate who were essentially like me—they feel stuck. They feel like there's more to it, but the traditional 9-to-5 roles that they see aren't fulfilling their maybe purpose or values or aligning with their values. So I'll be talking more to an individual versus a business owner.
AJ: So more B2C than B2B.
Kirstin: Yes, more—and I think on a little bit more personal level too. When I was talking about done-for-you services with project management and studio management, that was a lot about processes or systems and a little bit of touching on CEO mindset. This is a lot more personalized now. It'll be more personalized talking about somebody's life in total, not just their profession, but kind of how they want to redesign their career to have the lifestyle that they want.
THE PURPOSEFUL PAUSE AND IDENTITY RESET
AJ: You took a purposeful pause when your son was one. Tell me more about that.
Kirstin: Yes, it was the end of 2020. I was glad I made it through that pandemic working through things, but I was so burnt out. For the first time, I just felt like I needed to put myself first. A lot of projects went on hold, and for me, that was that opportunity that I just grabbed it.
In those 6 months, I had a lot more time with him. Didn't need to put him into daycare because we weren't a two-parent working household. So I had time with him to enjoy, because that goes by so fast. I had time with him, and then also it gave me some time to start listening to podcasts and exploring what else was out there as well.
It's funny—at the time, it felt like the longest 6 months because I had this struggle with who am I if I'm not doing. I never realized how much of my identity was just still tied up in my corporate role. But looking back at it, it was just the perfect amount of time to reset and dream bigger again.
FINDING WORK-LIFE BALANCE AS A PARENT-CONSULTANT
AJ: How do you navigate the realities of building a consulting practice while also being present as a parent? It's different than when you're in the corporate world. How have you managed all of that, finding that balance?
Kirstin: Well, I work from my home office, so I really—I'll be honest, taking out a commute from my equation has been the easiest place where I found balance. There are slower mornings, and I'll have time to eat breakfast with my son, for example, or have coffee with my husband before he rushes out the door.
But my balance for me is still setting an ideal schedule. I know a lot of people are like, oh, you work for yourself, it must be nice to set your own schedule. And yes, I do, but ironically, my ideal week still has some structure to it. I tend to still set the hours that I have, but I just tend to have less client time maybe on a Monday, so there's more time for my business or admin time for me. So I set kind of days of the weeks where I am of service, and then the other days of the weeks where I am of service to myself or my business and my household.
But I also have to remind myself when I do leave—part of my closeout for the day is shutting this door, my office door, because it's right here at the front of the house. Sometimes it will be tempting if I see the computer still on and I'm walking by. I'll be like, oh, did I do this, or I could look at this, or maybe I'll check in on that. If I can shut the door, that keeps me from that overproductive, overworking mom that I am trying to avoid being.
AJ: I'll just go back to my office for 5 minutes, and then it turns into an hour.
Kirstin: Oh yeah. And I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm human and it happens. But yeah, shutting that door does an amazing job of preventing that from happening.
AJ: I like that—done with the day, door goes closed.
RESOURCES: THE POWER OF ESSENTIALISM
AJ: I have a couple questions I call my rapid-fire wrap-up questions as we come to the end of the podcast. What is one book, podcast, or resource that has been invaluable to building your consulting business and now coaching?
Kirstin: The book "Essentialism" by Greg McKeown. I might have messed up his last name, but I think that is a book for anyone building a business or still in corporate. That book helped me heal from burnout. It helped me understand that some of my habits, not just the culture that I was in, but some of my own habits and mindset, was the factor in burnout.
That book—I hand it out a lot of times at Christmas or for gifts. "The Essentialist" or "Essentialism" was just—it taught me so much about mindset, and that's what put me on the path to really hone in on my mindset as well and using it for my benefit and not against me.
AJ: And our minds are not always our best friends. They're often our worst enemies.
Kirstin: Right, yeah—being self-critical. The words that we say to ourselves matter. They really do. They really will affect how you feel, and then that affects what you do.
REFRAMING MARKETING AS SERVICE
AJ: What is one piece of advice you wish someone had given you when you started consulting?
Kirstin: That being visible or talking about yourself isn't tooting your own horn. It's helping others find the services that you have to help them. I wish somebody taught me that sooner—that showing up and marketing yourself is also of service to help those people find you, and not something of vanity or tooting your own horn.
BUILDING THE MARKETING CONFIDENCE MUSCLE
AJ: How long did it take you to get comfortable with that? I hear that so often—that self-promotion just feels so yucky.
Kirstin: Yes. I'm still putting in the reps, AJ. I'm still putting in the reps like at the gym. I'm building that muscle to feel comfortable with it. But I would have to say in that first 6 months of doing it—but I think finding people outside, online communities, or I started networking more offline and in person and hearing or meeting other entrepreneurs, seeing what they're doing, seeing what they're putting out, was like, oh, this is normal. This is how it's done. So that helped me get over the hump as well.
AJ: And seeing them promoting—you probably didn't look at what they were doing to market as too salesy or self-promotion-y. If they can do that and you as somebody seeing their content are not getting those feelings that this is too self-promotion-y, then yours won't either.
Kirstin: Right. And it helps me shape through looking at other content and how I was engaging with it. I could tell, oh, this feels more similar to how I feel, or more of the tone of voice that I would like to lean into. That feels very comfortable this way. So that was helpful as well.
STRATEGIC SOCIAL MEDIA STUDY
AJ: Kind of like a study of what other people are doing—I like this, this feels good, this one is not me—to find your authentic voice.
Kirstin: Yes, and that is something that I am teaching the women inside the business mentorship that I have. Sure, get on social media, but make sure that you're not—when you do get on Instagram or another social media app, don't just consume, but study. What is it that you're liking? What is it that you're following? What is it about that person that you're following? Is it just what they do, or was it some sliver of maybe a personal aspect of them that you're following them for?
Be curious and study. Just look at the things—if you're saving it or liking it, just understand why you're liking it, and that will definitely shape how you market yourself.
AJ: Good advice, rather than just following the advice of everybody out there, because there's certainly a lot of opinions on what you should or shouldn't be saying and posting. It can be so confusing.
Kirstin: Right, it is. It sure is.
CLOSING AND CONNECTION INFORMATION
AJ: This last question is the most important question. How can listeners connect with you if they want to learn more about you and your work?
Kirstin: Great. They can connect with me on LinkedIn, just like you did with me, AJ. I'm also at KirstinBrenders.com, which will be in your show notes I know, and then I am also on Instagram at KirstinBrenders.co.
AJ: Okay, so KirstinBrenders.co on Instagram, Kirstin Brenders is the way you find you on LinkedIn, and that is the name of your website.
Kirstin: Correct.
AJ: Perfect, and all of those will be in the show notes as well. Kirstin, thank you so much. It was wonderful interviewing you today, and I love the work that you're doing and the pivots you're making, and especially the mindset things that you're working through. You're an inspiration.
Kirstin: Oh, thank you so much, AJ, and likewise for you. You're an inspiration too.
AJ: Thanks. Well, have a great rest of the day, and for all of you out there listening, keep thriving through.
