Katy Flatt - Full Interview Transcript
Episode 111 of Thriving Through Podcast
Welcome and Opening
AJ: Welcome to this episode of the Thriving Through Podcast. Today, my guest is Katy Flatt. Katy, welcome to the show.
Katy: Hello! Thank you for having me.
The Challenge of Being Passionate About Too Many Things
AJ: When we did our pre-interview, you said that your biggest challenge is being passionate about too many things. Which I know a lot of people can relate with, so I want to start there. When you say that, what does that actually feel like in your day-to-day?
Katy: I think that it doesn't come up immediately. What happens is that I'll be very passionate about something on Monday, and I'm very much in a brain space where I want to work only on my content agency stuff. I want to work just with content marketing and that kind of organizational stuff. And then on Thursday, it might be that I'm more in a quiet, creative mode, and I want to work more on design direction. Or I work with a client where I'm a little bit more than just the marketing consultant. I'm a little bit of the everything business consultant. And there's a day where I'm really run in with customer service, and so I wear a lot of hats. I have a lot of switches that we flip.
Katy: I'm having that brain loss moment with context switching, which is what it is, which is a valid thing, because it's one of those things where in school, you were really good at doing math at 4 o'clock on a Tuesday, because you always did math at 4 o'clock on a Tuesday, and you might be better off not trying to do science in that time.
How Context Switching Breaks Your Own Marketing
Katy: So, it didn't seem like a very big deal when I was kind of spreading myself out thin amongst a client, but when I started trying to do marketing for myself, something that I think we don't do a lot as marketing people because we market for everybody else all the time. I started realizing that when it came down to my messaging, what I want to offer, what I want to say I offer, what my add-ons are, it started getting really, really broad. And it was a little bit over here, and it was a little bit over there, and am I doing content marketing for agencies? Am I a small business consultant? Am I a project manager? And it just started getting really convoluted because, yeah, I'm a little bit of all those things. But that is an impossible thing to make a single business focus.
The Pressure to Have a Concise Positioning Statement
AJ: So the conflict really is, sort of, how do you package that all up into kind of a concise, we're told that we need a concise positioning statement. We need a very clear 30-second, people will get it when they read it or hear it. Is the issue, the conflict, packaging it? Or is the conflict that you like to do many things and you feel like you have to narrow down and drop some of those things?
Katy: I think it's a couple of things I've started to narrow down. One of them is, I think something I've always kind of battled against is that we've been told, society-wise and definitely in a work perspective, and it's changed a little bit from that we have to work the same career for 70 years mindset. But I do feel like there's that idea that, well, you can't be good at 10 things, you have to be really good at one thing, and I don't believe in that. I think that we come from a lot of varied backgrounds, especially in marketing, we work in a lot of industries. So if you find yourself working with an educator over here, and over here, you've got really good at product-led SaaS marketing, and because you had a client in the cannabis field, you somehow accidentally learned a whole bunch about that field. It is very possible to be, maybe not the most top expert, but extremely good in multiple industries, or in multiple roles in multiple disciplines.
Katy: So that's one battle, is I do want to do a lot, but society and marketing especially is telling you, well, you can't. You need Google to look at you and understand what you're doing, right? You need a client to see your elevator pitch and get it immediately. That's one problem.
Why Consulting Is So Hard to Explain
Katy: And then I think there's a second problem where, especially what we do as consultants, is not always clear. If people had a really good grasp on consulting, or marketing, or business or revenue, they wouldn't find a consultant to help them. So you're also trying to dispel what you do quickly and in a short way. But then it gets really jargony, and it gets really vague, and so you've tried to be specific and clear, and what you've ended up doing is somebody reads it, and they're like, well, I don't know what that means. What do they actually do at the end of the day? How are they helping me? What are they changing?
Katy: You could say, I optimize workflows for blah blah blah. It doesn't mean anything to anybody. Nobody understands that. So it's taking something that we already do, which I think operations and marketing operations and consulting, it can be so varied, because we should be adjusting based on what our clients need. So it feels strange to be like, I already know what you need. Contact me so I can tell you. It's so strange.
The Survivor Instinct of the Self-Employed
Katy: And then a third part of it, I think I mentioned earlier, is not even just about narrowing down, but it's a little bit marketing, and it's a little bit of a small business self-owner issue. Where you go, well, if I only say that I'm really good at working with boutique content marketing teams of 5 to 10, and they're struggling right now, I want to make sure this group of people knows I can do that too, because I can't be out of work for a month, what am I going to do? But those people maybe aren't hiring, I need to make sure this group of people's hiring. So it's that survivor instinct, as well. To make sure, oh no, I can do that too, though. Don't leave my page, because you didn't know that I could do that.
AI and the Schism in Content Marketing
AJ: Regarding that, that sounds like it's kind of one of the really big reasons of the three. If a particular industry or particular area starts to trend down, I still want to make sure that I'm making money.
Katy: Yeah, and I think there's a particular, coming from about the last 9 years, again, somewhat varied, but very consistently in the content marketing agency world. That's a big problem right now. We're finding a real big kind of schism between people who think AI will solve the problem, and therefore hiring either for people who aren't very well crafted to use this product to make another product. And people who aren't technologically savvy, so they don't even really understand that that is a concept. And hopefully there's some people over here too that are also just really appreciate the creativity of human beings, who are still hiring people to do things.
Katy: But right now, it's really hard to kind of suss out where those people are, because I'm definitely wanting to work with the people who value the humans and the creativity. Because AI is just never going to be creative. It doesn't have the ability. It's artificial intelligence, not artificial creativity.
Pressure to Diversify Services to Stay Afloat
Katy: And then you've got all these people that are hiring for AI, so right now, talking to colleagues in the same space, it's a big fear. Because what we've done pretty well and consistently is now being looked at as something else can do that better than you. And you're feeling really pushed to offer variable services, or to add on a couple minor packages, just to kind of stay afloat, or get yourself out there somewhere.
AJ: And that conventional wisdom, how does that land for you? Are you doing that, feeling like you have to offer a variety of different packages?
Katy: Yes. I feel like that. I'm not doing it yet, because I'm really trying to stick to what I've created on my site while maybe iterating too many times on how I'm explaining that in copy. But yeah, I am finding myself going, well, if I can't maximize this one business name to do all these things, do I create some DBAs? Do I have a DBA where I just do this other thing I really like, or I'm really good at?
Lessons from Earlier Diversification — Transcription and IP Relay
Katy: This isn't a good example moving forward, because AI has completely taken this over, but I used to do transcription for a while. Years and years ago, when I was a kid, I had a job where I worked in IP Relay, which is a communications service for the Deaf, where you would type out everything a caring person is saying. I got really good at transcription, and so I would do that on the side for a little bit, just as a sort of thing to keep afloat, to keep offering, in those early freelancer days.
Katy: So there's a little bit of that same feeling, of, I need to diversify, I need to offer a couple things in case this industry is going to go through this leg for a while until it finds its way up, because I think it will. But while it's going through those growing pains, you want to feel secure somewhere. And you also want to feel like you're valuable, and you're adding to something, and you're helping somebody. I think that's what consultants want to do at the end of the day, is they want to see people succeed. So you always kind of want to be doing something to help someone.
If You Had Unlimited Capacity, What Would You Choose?
AJ: If you had unlimited capacity and the freedom, what would you actually choose? Not the area that makes the most money, not the one that people are asking for or telling you you should focus on. What would you actually want to be doing?
Katy: I think I'd want to be a creative director of some kind. No matter what I'm doing, I've kind of narrowed it down to content marketing, which is probably a niche I am very happy in. But I think I'd want to be just applying that more specifically, probably, to woman-led businesses and non-profits. A place where I can keep that niche I'm happy with. I really love helping people with a process that I don't think they've ever considered having a process for.
Katy: Just helping things get from A to B to C with the creatives getting to do what the creatives are doing, while I still also get to be a little creative. So that's why the design or creative director kind of vibe would be lovely. Intense imposter syndrome about it, though.
Inventing Fractional Roles That Don't Officially Exist
AJ: So is there such a thing as a fractional creative director?
Katy: I don't know. I, again, have oddly made my own weird roles over the years. And so, in a way, I have a client where I have maybe almost made myself that, but again, it's because I really help with a broad variety of the business. So some days I'm the fractional customer success manager. And some days I'm the fractional COO, and some days I'm the fractional creative director.
AJ: Whatever needs to be done.
Katy: Yep.
Short-Term Advisory Work — Hedge or True Direction?
AJ: So you told me when we talked before, that what kind of lights you up is short-term advisory consultancies. So the hour-long consultancies. I want you to tell us a little bit about those, but the question I have is, are those kind of the hedge my bets in case the content creation kind of goes through upheaval with AI, or do you really want to build your business around offering more of those, if you could?
Katy: To kind of go back to that question of what would you prefer to be doing? This is definitely a position I'm very intentionally trying to move into, not necessarily because I need those little bits to kind of piece in, but because I am very lucky to work with a couple of really consistent clients, and I put a lot of time in there. And as I said, a lot of times I'm switching brains doing this and that. And I just don't have all the time that I would like to to implement anymore, because I'm fairly busy.
Katy: But I've just always enjoyed, no matter what I'm doing, doing a variety of things. I don't like monotony. I like to keep it a little interesting. I like to have to research something new about a new company or industry or something that I haven't been exposed to.
What Lights Her Up About Short-Term Consultancies
Katy: So what I like about those short-term consultancies is getting to sit down and have a chat with people who maybe just don't have a ton of money, they don't have a ton of investment. They oftentimes, in my experience, have the people on the team already who can implement, and they're very capable, they're very intelligent. It's just maybe they haven't had time to devote to this, or recently somebody said they need to start using Asana, and they've only ever used ClickUp, and they don't understand it.
Katy: So having those short kind of term things, you just go through a conversation with people and suggest things that might be more helpful to them, and write out that sort of report of, here's what I would do, here's how I would do it. Go forth and run with it. I really enjoy that, because I do feel like I get to keep in the game, I still get to be a little bit helpful, but I'm not over-promising my time, which is what I really don't want to do. I don't want to promise I can do a bunch of stuff when I can't.
Building a Light Agency Model with Trusted People
Katy: What I am hoping to get to, and my website's kind of pointing to, and I plan to build on it, is more of, here's the plan, but if you need the people to do this, if you need a writer, if you need a designer, if you need a project manager, I know those people. I've been working with those people for 10 years. I have people that I trust, that I would recommend in a heartbeat. And that saves you from having to go out and hire somebody or figure it out. And so that's a little bit what I'm leaning towards, is doing what I want, but kind of lifting the group of people who grew with me to this point up as well.
AJ: So the short-term projects could be just your deep dive, your diagnosis and your report, but if then they need help, then it can almost function like an agency.
Katy: Yes. I know a little bit of everybody in each position, so I can recommend people to do that if I don't have the time.
Would Content Operations Still Matter If Advisory Was Primary?
AJ: And if you could do more of these, would the content operations type of work matter anymore?
Katy: You mean what I do elsewhere? When I'm actually doing that? Yes, I think so. Because I get a ton of joy out of it. I think most people in operations, and consultancies in general, have some amount of getting that joy out of fixing a problem, right? And yeah, it's fun to tell people how to fix the problem, but sometimes you want to sit down and just fix the problem. I think it's like when you're a CPA, and you have a bunch of accountants working under you, and yeah, they can do all the work, but sometimes you just want to open a spreadsheet and fill it out yourself.
Her Two Retainer Clients and Their Different Demands
AJ: And yet your two long-term clients, you've got two retainer clients that sort of give you stability.
Katy: Yeah, I would say so. Knock on all the wood that's around.
AJ: And take up most of your time. So, would you call those content operations type assignments?
Katy: One is pretty exclusively, for sure, content operations. I work with a small content agency, all content marketing focused. And then the other one is more, like I said, I wear sort of a bunch of different hats with a small business, still very, very small, but starting to operate, starting to create those departments, starting to figure out where to put leaders in those departments. But they're not quite there yet.
Katy: So some days and some weeks, most recently, I've been more content marketing focused. Some days I'm customer service focused, some days I'm doing another part of the operations that I really enjoy, and I usually kind of tack on with my operational consultancies, whether it's content marketing or otherwise. Which is creating knowledge bases and SOPs and that kind of stuff to make sure that my biggest goal for whatever I'm doing is to make sure that people have the resources and know where to find them and can answer the question themselves.
AJ: Got it, which is kind of a whole different, I mean, it's still content, but it's a whole different type of content.
Katy: Yeah, I guess that's where I get to be a little creative, even when being really practical.
The Pressure to Go Deeper into Content Operations
AJ: You mentioned that you're getting some pressure, that people keep telling you to keep going deeper into content operations because that's where the demand is. That's where they see a need. When you hear that feedback, what is your actual gut response?
Katy: My gut response is yes. I like that, I enjoy it, I understand it very well. One of the issues I'm having with it is, I feel like I made, not to say that I made it up, but I kind of did make up what I do specifically. It doesn't fit the, oh, content operations, somebody doesn't look at that and go, I get that, I know what that means. Because we've all kind of created what we think it means for ourselves.
Katy: So when people say go deeper into it, I want to say, yeah, I know, I do, I love it, but I also feel like it's the thing that needs the most sort of explanation, or setup, or how do I sell this quickly? Not only that, it is really a piece of a puzzle I think people don't think about a lot, which is why I found a niche in it. But then it's how do you tell people they're looking for this piece of the puzzle that they don't know that they're looking for?
Katy: And so I'm very much on the side of, yes, I do want to do this, and not that I'm afraid of a little work, but it also does feel like it's the harder mountain to climb when trying to start from scratch like I am now, whereas I've gotten by in the last 9 years with just word of mouth. But also, that only goes so far. Gotta branch out at some point.
How She Got Her Current Clients — Word of Mouth
AJ: So how did you get your current clients? How are you getting clients now?
Katy: Gosh, probably exactly that, word of mouth. Networking. For a while there, content marketing was such a small, it felt like such a little world, that you kind of knew all the players in it, you knew all the people. The one agency that I've been working with, I've been working with for, it'll be 10 years in February. So it's been a very long haul, and then because of that, I got a lot of recommendations just from my other colleagues there, who also are all freelancers and small business owners. So I really glided off those recommendations for a long time.
Going from Word of Mouth to Self-Marketing
Katy: So it really hasn't been until the last, I think it's about maybe 4, 5 months that I've actually gotten my website live, that I'm starting with how do I find people from scratch? And I haven't quite gotten there yet, quite frankly. I have not had a ton of time, and I think it's because I've got that perfectionism issue, where you think you can't share something until it's absolutely perfect. But I also have to learn to just get it out there, because the more I get out there and get some feedback, even if somebody contacts me for the wrong reason, if somebody contacts me because they don't get it. That would be excellent. That would help me know what I need to do to make it a little bit better.
AJ: Because it's data.
Katy: Yeah.
What Content Operations Actually Is
AJ: So what you're focusing on in terms of your website and your positioning right now is really that content creation? Or the content operations?
Katy: What I like to do is the content operations. And again, I know that those aren't words that mean anything. What it really is, is that there's a lot of pieces that fall through the cracks, and I think this is more angled with content agencies, because there's a big gap between them and their client. Larger companies that they might have a content marketing department. And they might be creating a ton of assets, but a lot of times they're missing a piece of the puzzle that sort of keeps everything moving.
Why Project Managers Aren't Solving the Problem
Katy: A lot of people then'll say, oh, that's a project manager. Yeah, to some extent, but I think what project managers have become, when it comes to content, just a person who opens Asana and goes, hey Tracy, you didn't do this yesterday, are you going to do it today? And then they move the date. And not to say they're not valuable, but that doesn't stop something from, why isn't this moving forward? We haven't reached out to the partner. This is a partner post, and we need to reach out to the partner, because we've been trying to get a logo from them, and we need the logo in order to finish the graphics, so we can finish the graphics, so we can post the blog post. And the reason we haven't also done that is because legal has to review this and that.
Katy: And there's so many moving pieces that usually the creative director is doing too much to pay attention to that. They don't have time for the nitty-gritty. The project manager at a project management platform level is just trying to make sure all these things exist in the platform, and that the automations are working, and that the status gets changed to this.
Looking at the Actual Order of Operations
Katy: But what I try to do is actually look at, okay, this is the piece of content we have to make. It involves these stakeholders. This is the order of operations we need to do it. Here is who needs to be the responsible person for making sure this next thing's happened. Here's where the block is so this can't go this way. It sounds, I feel like, very obvious, but it's not something I see a lot of people doing. And it's something that I really like to do.
What Problems Content Operations Actually Solves
AJ: I always like to challenge my clients on, what problems are you solving for your clients? When you're doing the content operations piece, they may not know what content operations are, they may not understand it when you talk about it, but what problems are you solving for them?
Katy: It depends a little bit on what kind of content they're doing, of course, and what their goals are, but assuming that they have created some kind of goal and plan, it's a couple of things. It's a little bit of a quality assurance level, because part of what I do is I insert myself into that level. I'm really, really detail-oriented, and so a lot of times I'll note something that is easily missed by people who, if there isn't that safeguard. It could be something as simple as why doesn't this SEO title match the title of the post, or stylization and brand expectations. It could be something as small as they don't like to put the space in between their M dash.
Consistency as Trust Signaling
Katy: It's a silly thing, and yes, it's really specific, but it solves a few things. It creates a world of consistency. Consistency, even from an outside perspective, even people who aren't content people, will recognize the lack of consistency more than anything. And when you see the lack of consistency, when you look at a company that feels messy or disorganized, or maybe they don't quite know what they're doing, or maybe they're outsourcing to people who don't care. So it's a little bit of trust signaling, to be really thoughtful about the consistency of your output and what you're doing creatively.
Strategic Dependencies and Cascading Delays
Katy: And then there's strategic and tactical back-end goals, such as, we need to get this piece posted in a certain amount of time, because if this piece isn't posted, we can't connect it to this piece. Or we have social posts that we plan to go out on Tuesday, but we can't link to the piece of content if the piece of content isn't published on Monday. And if it pushes these 5 things back, well, then these 5 things have to be pushed back as well.
Katy: So what it is trying to do is stopgap a kind of crazy loss of efficiency, things just getting away, people getting far behind so that they can't focus on other things. A lot of times in content, people are focused on 4 or 5 other departments. It's peace of mind, so that you or somebody in a management position doesn't have to spend a ton of their time on something they might not be particularly skilled in.
Being the Bridge Between Freelancers and the Business
Katy: And a lot of times, what I end up doing because of who I focus on, I'm also working with freelancers, and I'm sort of the direct connection between freelancers with this something else that saves people a lot of time, confusion, lack of consistency. Creating stylization guidelines so everybody knows what's expected of them. And it just gives that breath of relief of order and calmness that I don't have to worry about this.
AJ: Sounds like you're pretty passionate about content operations.
Katy: I am. It's a weird thing to be passionate about, as I explained it like that.
Three Directions, All the Same Thing to Her
AJ: So that is an area that you're passionate about. You've also got a part of you that likes the short advisory work. And now you've also got this idea about starting a separate agency with people you trust. Maybe not necessarily a formal agency, but...
Katy: We haven't thought about it, but...
AJ: So that's 3 different directions. And when you look at all three, what's actually calling to you?
Katy: Well, that's the problem I think I have trouble answering with people, because to me, those are all the same thing. The package is different. We're actually doing the content operations stuff. The short-term consultancies, I'm typically doing that from a content operation perspective. I'm talking to people that are trying to get their agencies or their agency client connections or their content marketing team, I'm usually giving that kind of operational consultancy. And then the part of the mini agency, which we have actually joked about before, my role in that agency would still just be the content marketing operations person. Maybe a little bit more of the creative I like to do, like design direction or a little editing, inserting myself in the creative process a little more. But to me, they're all the same, and that's why when people say, which thing do you want to focus on? I'm like, what do you mean? All three.
Katy: But that said, I know it's not possible. That's why the agency thing has been pushed, trying to focus more on the short-term consultancies first, before over-promising myself to something like, oh, I'll just start an agency, which is a whole new thing.
AJ: Yeah, that's a pretty big commitment.
The First Website Attempt — Too Broad
AJ: So is it an external or an internal voice that's saying you either have to go content operations or the short-term advisory?
Katy: I don't feel like that's an issue. It's not sort of the way that is packaged it up, it's the internal and both external when it comes to the other service offerings that I typically enjoy doing.
Katy: To say more specifically, one thing that I did do was, when I first sort of put my website out there, I did make it more small business operations consulting. Because I was a little too afraid to niche in, or at least wanted it to be an option. And that's where I felt like, well, I felt like, and I think other people gave feedback, it's too broad. I do like doing small business consulting, and that's hard to nail down because they could need information consulting in a variety of different things. Departments, or aspects, or roles, or finance, or whatever. But it's too broad to try to market. If you're not going to niche down on an industry or a certain discipline that you do particularly well, it's too broad.
The Second Iteration — Adding Too Many Services Back In
Katy: So then my next iteration was focusing more on the content marketing operations, but then I also wanted to have that, oh, but I edit also, I do, and I can write, and I can do social media posting, and I do design direction. That's where it felt like, even though I was sticking kind of to my space, and I love doing all those aspects of it, it doesn't seem to make sense to sell, because then I feel like I'm losing the content operations, sort of editorial operations in all of these things. To say, well, I can just be an editor, or I can just be a design director. All of those people matter. Those are all important things.
Katy: I was just getting buried. And then it's a thing where I start taking away the add-ons, but then I feel bad, because I'm like, oh no, what if one person looks at this and he's an editor? It's silly, obviously, but you have that business pull of, I want to make sure they know I can do this.
What's the Risk of Focusing Only on Content Marketing Operations?
AJ: So there's that tension of, you want to make sure people know you do content marketing operations, but also, yeah, I can do these other things. What's the risk do you think if you just said, I'm going to focus on content marketing operations?
Katy: I'm trying to tell myself there's not one. I feel like this is a feeling, not logic or information, is nobody wants this right now, everybody's running around with their hair on fire, trying to figure out what GEO is, and what AEO is, and what the content marketing renaissance looks like. So I think I'm fearing that a little bit, but as I say that out loud now, I also feel like, well, that's maybe exactly why people would be looking for something at this extent right now. I don't by any means make a claim as an SEO specialist, but maybe it's an opportunity to just help people with a little bit more education, even, about what it is, what's going on, and what they might want to do in the future.
AJ: In addition to the other things you're doing.
Katy: Not necessarily in addition, but just as a value prop, I suppose. Just, I come from this world, I understand it. Let's talk about it, and let's figure out what you need to figure out.
Operations Meets Strategy
Katy: Maybe that's a good way to look at what I'm not able to put into words on a website, is that it's a little bit of an operation meets strategy place. It's not just operations for the sake of operations and efficiency, it's operations with some strategic goal behind it.
AJ: Which can be woven together.
Katy: Right.
Niche Enough to Attract, Broad Enough Not to Scare
Katy: At the end of the day, I always want to keep it niche enough to get that right client, but broad enough to not scare them away from whatever they want to ask me about content marketing.
AJ: Do you think it's possible? You're kind of straddling. Is it possible to do that? I've heard a statistic that you've got maybe 10 seconds when they come onto your website, or when they look at you on LinkedIn, for them to determine what exactly you do.
Coming from an ASL Background and the Power of Blunt Communication
Katy: That's why a big shift in my brain, and I haven't been able to do it quite in words, but it's coming. A personal passion that I've had about marketing my whole life, and I didn't come into this with a passion for marketing or sales, and I think that's why I'm very passionate about content. Because I've told people my whole life, other than working in restaurants, I couldn't sell you a thing. I never want to sell people anything. I could sell food, because people need to eat, and I believe in good food. And I can sell knowledge. And so, I love and appreciate working in content for that reason. I'm very happy to try to sell something that tells people how this could help them, or solve a problem, or fix this thing.
Katy: But what I really have never cared for is how vague the world of marketing and copy can be. And so something I struggle with when I'm dealing with clients and content and sort of stylization and all that is, what if we just said this the way it is? That's also a little bit because I come from an ASL background, and the Deaf community is very blunt, and it changes the way that your brain understands things. There's not a lot of nuance there.
Just Stating What You Do Plainly
Katy: But if we just said more things the way it is. What I'd really like to do is, I kind of went a little bit in the marketing direction that everybody does when you're writing your pretty little description about yourself, and what you do, and your services. And I think I just want to revamp it to be just as straightforward as possible. Not so straightforward that it's scary and it's yelling at you, but instead of using this, I solve these workflow problems so that you can get back to doing whatever makes you creative and happy, it's just literally stating out what I do.
Katy: And I think in doing that, it not only will help people understand it more, but it might even just intrigue some curiosity. Oh, what is that like? What does that mean for me? So that is a struggle I'm having. I'm going to give it a shot. I'm going to go straightforward, blunt, personable. I've always seemed to do well with that, as long as I can get it to come through the copy, and then see how it holds up.
AJ: And how's it going on doing that?
Katy: I'll let you know. It's something that literally came to me in my head earlier this week. And as a lot of people, I think, working on their own businesses, that tends to be a Friday afternoon, Saturday time.
Short-Term Work as a Test Drive for Retainer Clients
AJ: You were talking before, when I was talking about the advisory, short-term advisory, and the content operations as being separate, and you talked about how they really aren't. It strikes me that the short-term ones almost could be a way to get people to test drive you. Because when you're asking them for a retainer, you've got two retainer clients now, how long did it take you to get those retainer clients?
Katy: Well, one of them is total nepotism. It's just somebody that I worked with when I was younger, who started a content marketing agency, and somebody split on him, and they desperately needed help. And I forced my way in until they said that I could come do it, and that's how I learned content marketing from the ground up. And then the second one, to be honest, somebody I've worked with very long at that agency. And asked me to come over and help them when they started their own thing.
Katy: So when I say I'm truly blessed that I have made it off of just networking from this point forward, including my other small consultations, that is truly the case. This is me putting on my grown-up pants for the first time, and going, I can probably do some of this myself. So that's why all of it is sort of a mystery of where is this going and how is it going to go.
What's Holding Her Back Right Now
AJ: And what's holding you back right now?
Katy: Time, probably. Again, that inner battle that freelancers have a lot of the time of, do I spend 4 hours on something for me that, yes, I definitely should do and would have a bigger payoff in the long run, or do I spend 4 more hours working for this client that's paying me hourly because I need to do my invoice next week? That is a constant battle, isn't it?
Freelancer vs Consultant vs Small Business Owner
AJ: So what I'm kind of hearing is there's still a little bit of a freelancer mindset.
Katy: I would say that I don't not consider myself a freelancer. I feel like with a small business, that is always the case. You're working to make money to pay yourself, and you have to make sure that you're working to make the money to pay yourself.
AJ: Right. Well, but when I think of freelancer, to me, it's you're paid on an hourly basis.
Katy: Oh, see, I just see it more as a synonym for contractor at this point. I think we say freelancer because it has more of a connotation of, I am in control of my life, we like to think.
AJ: Got it. And consultant doesn't have the same connotation?
Katy: I just don't see them on the same parallel of descriptors. The consultant is more of a role name? Where freelancer is more of an employment type. Just a non-W2 descriptor. So I don't see them in the same sort of umbrella of words. Both a freelancer and a consultant. And a contractor. I'm a small business owner.
The 3-5 Year Vision
AJ: I want to shift gears a little bit and look out to the future. So, 3 to 5 years. Where do you want to be in 3 to 5 years?
Katy: I think in 3 to 5 years, I'd like to be doing a little bit of a mix of the two kind of goals. I'd like to be doing something more in the middle of offering those short-term consultancies, but really having them span out into implementation work, at least upwards of, like, 3 to 6 months. So instead of just having time to sort of have a chat and make a plan and maybe recommend somebody to help carry that out, to be able to follow through on more of those contracts.
Katy: And ideally it'd be nice if they were really intense. It really required a lot of time in those 3 to 6 months. And I could kind of go from one business or industry to the next, because I really love learning about stuff, getting people set up, making sure people are set up, and then being able to do that as a full cycle consistently would be really nice. Having the next one set up.
AJ: Ready to go, right?
Balancing Current Clients with Future Growth
AJ: What's going to hold you back from accomplishing this, from seeing this vision come to fruition?
Katy: Probably that personal pull that I always want to help. I always want to help the people that came first. Therefore, it takes up a lot of my time as my current retainer clients. And not in a way that it holds me back in a bad way, just that figuring out what the best, probably, balances. Finding the balance.
AJ: Finding the balance between current clients and the long-term clients and the short-term clients?
Katy: Yeah. In terms of my actual real human ability to be available. How many hours a day?
AJ: Yes, exactly. And some of those do need to be spent on marketing.
Katy: Yes, and some of them at some point need to be for me.
AJ: Yes, exactly.
What Thriving Means to Katy
AJ: Well, this has been wonderful. Thank you for letting me go way down the rabbit hole of this whole area of, your positioning and niching and what do you want to be when you grow up. So, last question. Actually, two questions. One is, this podcast is called Thriving Through. So what does thriving mean to you, and are you thriving?
Katy: Thriving would be the big step above surviving, right? It's not just trying to make sure you've got it all figured out for this month, and kind of worrying about it from a month-to-month basis. I think thriving would be happening when I have a little bit of validation that this idea for how I should market myself is going to work out, or does work out. I start seeing those inquiries come in, I start focusing a little bit more on myself and devoting time to do that, because that's really the big roadblock, is just sometimes betting on yourself.
Looking at the Whitewater Rapids — Knowing What's Coming
Katy: And then I think that future, as I was talking about, where I have a little bit of just a flux of a few things coming up, rather than either trying to catch up or stay on top of something. Be lovely to sort of have this future where something new is coming all the time. It's a little bit more exciting and Whitewater Rapidsey.
AJ: So you like being on the in the canoe, looking at the white water.
Katy: Yes, knowing what's coming. I want some risk out there, I want to live a little dangerously, but I also want that lovely comfort of just knowing that new, interesting adventures are already on their way.
AJ: Got it. New interesting adventures. That's important.
Where to Find Katy
AJ: So, the last and the most important question, if listeners want to learn more about you and what you do, where should they go?
Katy: You can find me on LinkedIn, Katy Flatt. Not on a bunch of other social medias, not my thing, but my website as well. You can find whatever iteration of content is up at the moment at thegirlinquestion.me.
AJ: GirlInquestion.me.
Katy: Yes.
AJ: And for those of you listening, the URL for Katy's LinkedIn profile and her website will be in the show notes.
Katy: Thank you, I was going to say, I can't tell you off the top of my head.
AJ: That's perfectly okay. It will be there and clickable.
Closing
AJ: All right, well, thank you, Katy, for being with me today. Again, for those of you listening or watching, until next time, keep thriving through.